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Real Name Jerykk   
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Nickname Jerykk
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Signed On Apr 23, 2004, 02:42
Total Comments 14087 (Ninja)
User ID 20715
 
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News Comments > Thief Previews; Videos
13. Re: Thief Previews; Videos Jan 25, 2014, 01:33 Jerykk
 
I guess I've just come to accept that a game doesn't need to be a remake in order to be good. DX:HR was a great DX game, even if it didn't surpass the original in every way. I see the new Thief in the same way. While there are things I probably won't like, I'm not going to immediately dismiss the game just because it doesn't have manual jumping, especially when manual jumping didn't really lead to emergent gameplay in the previous games.

You say that PC games used to be better than they are today and in some respects, that's true. However, games (multiplatform or not) have improved in many ways since the 90's. Aside from presentation, AI has improved significantly. I'm 90% sure the AI in the new Thief will be better than the AI in the previous games. UI has improved as well (except for Bethesda's games), with modern UI generally being cleaner and more intuitive. Controls have generally improved as well. Play the latest Hitman and Splinter Cell games and then go back and play the originals. A world of difference. Level design varies, but modern games are just as capable of having open-ended levels as older games. Just look at Dishonored. Not all games are linear corridor shooters ala CoD.

The other issue I have with your opinions is that they rely on false correlations and faulty logic. The removal of manual jumping has nothing to do with consoles. Nothing. There are plenty of console games that have manual jumping. Ever played Mario or Tomb Raider or Prince of Persia? Conversely, there are plenty of PC games that don't have manual jumping. Ever played Rainbow Six, Operation Flashpoint or Ghost Recon?

The Thief experience was not defined by your ability to manually jump. It was never Mario or Prince of Persia or Tomb Raider or Deus Ex or Quake or UT. If we were talking about those games, your point would be perfectly valid. Alas, we are not. Mobility was a big part of Thief but if that same mobility can be achieved with the new traversal system, what's the problem? The real problem is that you are offended by automated traversal as a matter of principle, even if that automation has no significant impact on the overall gameplay experience. That's why your argument is weak.

BTW: I assume that people haven't clicked the link because they repeatedly say things that they wouldn't say if they had. For example, asking if the button prompts can be turned off or complaining that combat is too easy or that Focus mode is overpowered.
 
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News Comments > Thief Previews; Videos
9. Re: Thief Previews; Videos Jan 24, 2014, 22:56 Jerykk
 
I want to see gameplay with everything off. The constant "press x to xxxxx" prompts just isn't the kind of gameplay I'm interested in. I have 104+ keys and a bunch on my mouse. I want to assign keys to do specific things based on what the game physics will allow, and then figure out how to accomplish my objectives by being able to do anything I wish, anywhere. If you need to be prompted, or close enough to something so pressing a key will play some scripted action, well, then that isn't gaming, afaic. It's an interactive movie. It's limiting, and it's boring.

Oh brother. So, you basically don't play games anymore? Because every game has button prompts these days. And you do realize that the actions you perform are the same regardless of whether or not you see a prompt? If you press E to open a door or pick a lock or pickpocket someone, that action remains the same even when the prompt is never shown.

And yes, you can completely turn off the UI. Here's a link I've posted several times in various threads that apparently no one actually clicks: http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Stealing-Time-Episode-4?theme=thief
 
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News Comments > Resident Evil 4 SD & HD Comparison
13. Re: Resident Evil 4 SD & HD Comparison Jan 24, 2014, 12:28 Jerykk
 
nin wrote on Jan 24, 2014, 09:15:
No thanks, Capcom. If you're not removing GFMFWL from your various titles, I don't see why I should give you any more money.

Because this game doesn't use GFWL and Capcom hasn't used GFWL since Operation Raccoon City?

The most important question to me is whether this game supports mouse aim. They've already confirmed that there's no mouse support in the inventory screen. I need to know if there's mouse support when I'm looking around and aiming.
 
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News Comments > Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
14. Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer Jan 24, 2014, 01:12 Jerykk
 
I didn't have any problems with M/KB in the AC games. It's not like the controls are complex since most the gameplay consists of holding down a button and occasionally pressing a different one.  
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News Comments > Snow Trailer
3. Re: Snow Trailer Jan 24, 2014, 01:09 Jerykk
 
The game looks and feels much better in first-person, at least in the videos I've seen. Not sure if that was a hack or an official feature, though.  
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News Comments > The Elder Scrolls Online and Thief Each Rated "M"
31. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online and Thief Each Rated Jan 23, 2014, 12:35 Jerykk
 
Quinn wrote on Jan 23, 2014, 10:20:
Surprised to see ESO gets M. I can't remember any gore at all during combat, nor anythiing visceral that is actually needed at the basis of good melee combat -- there's no sense of impact AT ALL! I also didnt read any cuss words or really anything that would be as bad an influence to youngsters as to rate it M.

About THIEF... pfuh. I'm not a prude at all, but fuck me was I disgusted by the triple X porn scene in The Darkness 2. I assume it will be a similar scene in THIEF. It is SO FUCKING TELLING what kind of mindset the developers have that work on this game. They just want the game to be a complete hit among the masturbating 16 year olds -- you know, the group that makes sure consoles and COD are still on the market.

The brothel in Darkness 2 was supposed to be disgusting and depressing. It did a great job of conveying the general misery of the people working there. I don't think the brothel in THIEF will serve the same purpose. Instead, I think it will serve to show the excesses of the rich.
 
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
84. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 23, 2014, 04:40 Jerykk
 
I can't remember a game where I didn't know exactly where to go and what to do, either. What I couldn't know was how many routes there always were and were the secrets were. I tried to make a far jump to another rooftop, I quicksaved and loaded 4 times until I realized it was indeed impossible to get there. It's that kind of trial&error that made the games more fun and less on rails.

It's usually pretty obvious when you can't make a jump and a single attempt is enough to confirm any doubts. If Thief had more systems at work that affected variables like jump height and distance, then yes, there would be good reason to attempt jumps multiple times. The leg augmentation in DX increased your speed and jump height and could be upgraded multiple times, increasing these attributes further and creating more opportunities for emergent gameplay. But Thief's systems were never that complex.

Most importantly, there won't be any aimed and calculated jumps anymore.. like onto crates next to a guard from up high, knocking him down with a welltimed blackjack strike.

How often would you actually do that, though? And would it be more practical or useful than simply sneaking up behind him? Landing on the crates would generate a lot of noise and even if you knocked out your target, nearby guards might hear you. Also, we don't even know how the traversal system handles ledges or air control. The video establishes that you can walk off ledges but if you're holding down the traversal key, will you automatically jump like in AC? There are certainly questions left to be answered but it's silly to assume that the traversal system will be inherently restrictive and limited.

More mobility, maybe yeah. More cinematic too. Not an improvement per se. Like AC, it can get really fucking boring really quick.

Thankfully, Thief doesn't have nearly as much platforming as AC. In AC, you spend about 70% of the game running, jumping and climbing. In Thief, it's more like 20% traversal, 80% stealth.
 
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
82. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 22, 2014, 02:53 Jerykk
 
Unless you have an exact blueprint of a map, you don't know what the designers did or didn't intend.

When you play CoD, do you need a blueprint of the map? No, because the map is obviously linear. If you see any kind of barrier, you know you won't be able to pass it. When you see a clearly designated path surrounded by said barriers, you know that's the only path you can take. When a level is linear, it's extremely obvious 99.9% of the time. I don't think I've ever played a game where I didn't immediately realize how linear the levels were. When I played Thief, I never had any doubts as to where I could and couldn't go even though the levels were relatively open-ended. The game's systems weren't expansive or flexible enough to make me believe that I could potentially go anywhere.

The removal of manual jumping nails you to the ground like a magnet or train, and it'll give many of us exactly that sensation I think.

Sure, except when you're jumping, mantling, vaulting, etc. You act like the new traversal system removes all verticality from the game. That's not the case at all. Watch that video I linked to again. Note the various maneuvers the player performs. Note how he even hops onto and off of a wagon at one point. There's no real reason to jump onto the wagon but the traversal system allows it. From what I've seen, the traversal system looks to provide plenty of flexibility.

The removal of manual jumping nails you to the ground like a magnet or train, and it'll give many of us exactly that sensation I think.

I'm pretty sure what will actually happen is that players will recognize that the traversal system offers just as much utility as manual jumping. As they're running across rooftops, pulling themselves up ledges and vaulting over obstacles, they might even feel a greater sense of mobility than the previous games provided.
 
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
80. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 21, 2014, 23:28 Jerykk
 
If you know that what you're doing is random and pointless, there's no illusion. You don't feel like you're outsmarting the developers because you know you're just doing something random and pointless. Emergent gameplay needs to serve a purpose. You need to actually be solving a problem that the designers put forward. That's when you feel like you outsmarted the designers.

Manual jumping in DX was important because it allowed you to create emergent gameplay that solved problems. Manual jumping in Thief? Not so much. The levels were never as open-ended as the ones in DX and there were far fewer systems that could interact in emergent ways. You say that manual jumping makes it so much harder to tell what the designers intended for you to do but that's not true at all. CoD has manual jumping and it's always blatantly obvious what the designers want you to do. When it comes to creating the illusion of freedom and player agency, level design is exponentially more significant than manual jumping and the levels I've seen in the new Thief look pretty open-ended.
 
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News Comments > Resident Evil 4 HD Next Month
7. Re: Resident Evil 4 HD Next Month Jan 21, 2014, 12:22 Jerykk
 
Does it have mouse support this time?  
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
78. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 21, 2014, 04:33 Jerykk
 
Its too long ago to come up with any examples. However, I do remember shooting multiple rope arrows creating a path, I climbed on one and jumped to the other and so forth. Good chance it resulted in absolutely no progress, but that wasn't the point. The point was 1. that it was fun and 2. that even the mere illusion of "out-thinking" the developers made the game feel less on rails. After all, the removal of said illusion can maybe even be defined as a game being on rails. If you don't get that, I'm wasting my time here.

No offense but that was probably the worst example of emergent gameplay I've ever read. Random activities without meaningful results exist in every game, even the most linear and scripted. If I play CoD, I can hop backwards while throwing grenades in the air and then try to stab them as they fall back down. However, there's no real reason to do this and it doesn't accomplish anything. If the only benefit of manual jumping is the ability to do random and pointless activities, then its absence won't have any impact at all in the new Thief.

Watch this video from DX for some good examples of emergent gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAGtiCRc_nQ

This comment was edited on Jan 21, 2014, 04:43.
 
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News Comments > 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games
55. Re: 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games Jan 20, 2014, 23:54 Jerykk
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 22:56:
Axis wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 16:42:
Apparently desktops don't exist anymore and Crossfire is the only game that plays worth a shit on laptops?

Or... it's South Korea.
Asking a few friends that I game with over in S.Korea(they're born, raised and live west side--and all that) on it, it seems that it's more of a thing with netcafe kids, and highschoolers than anyone else. Though there is a following among the salerymen(30-45) group as well. I guess someone found a market, exploited it, and made an assload of money.

It has to have a larger audience than that if these numbers are accurate. LoL is incredibly popular worldwide and Crossfire apparently makes 50% more money.
 
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News Comments > On Sale
6. Re: On Sale Jan 20, 2014, 23:13 Jerykk
 
Spec Ops is not an immense turd. It's a mediocre cover shooter with an interesting narrative. Not a bad deal for $7.50, though it routinely drops to $5 or less. GMG was even giving it away for free at one point.  
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
76. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 20, 2014, 22:59 Jerykk
 
Quinn wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 15:31:
Beamer wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 11:09:
Verno wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 09:30:
I'm willing to give the new Thief a chance, manual jumping in Thief is really not a make it or break it feature. There are far more important things like AI, the stealth system functionality and so on.

Manual jumping will feel limiting at first, but it wouldn't break a game for me at all.

Someone complained that it just lets you go where a level designer wants you to. In some cases, this can be a good thing. If the level designer puts something in too weak to hold weight, then you can't go on it, whereas in the original Thief I remember running on things that would in no way be silent.

If it has a press-space-to-climb feature, like Far Cry 3, I can see it being fine. Disorienting for the first 30 minutes, then a non-factor.

This is the stuff I don't get. At all.

Because a game gets allot of critique for very ligitemate reasons, osme people decide to get uncharactistically tolerant. We're talking about the removal of manual jumping in a first person Stealth game here! Sure, the game can be alright, but the removal of manual jumping is still the most retarded decision ever. Also, finding your own crazy route was a huge factor of what made Thief 1 and 2 and even 3 so interesting. It motivated the player to explore and try all kind of crazy stuff to get past obstacles. If it ended up with Garrett doing something outright impossible.. who cares? It was fun.

Oh, but people get tired of the critique.. so even the most retarded decision isn't all that bad now. Its laughable.

Thief was never Minecraft. There were a finite number of ways to enter and move through any building and the paths you could take were explicitly defined by the designers. If they didn't want you to go somewhere, they'd simply add collision. If they didn't want you to use your rope arrows, they'd simply not place any wooden beams. I have yet to see a single example of genuinely emergent gameplay (gameplay that was never intended or foreseen by the designers) that resulted from the ability to manually jump. If manual jumping made Thief the pinnacle of emergent gameplay, surely you can list just one specific example of that? If we were talking about the original DX, I'd agree with you. But Thief was never as open-ended as DX and never had even a fraction of its emergence.

Out of curiosity, did you also complain about the lack of manual jumping in Bulletstorm? Or any other first-person game? If so, I think the issue lies with you, not the games. Demanding that every first-person game have manual jumping is about as silly as demanding that every first-person game have leaning, iron sights, sprint or whatever other mechanic you arbitrarily decide is essential.
 
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
75. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 20, 2014, 22:50 Jerykk
 
harlock wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 16:36:
Jerykk wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 04:20:
Emergent gameplay is defined by unintended behavior within a game's systems.

Too narrow minded. Intentional behavior is also included.

Emergent gameplay refers to complex situations in video games, board games, or table top role-playing games that emerge from the interaction of relatively simple game mechanics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

That's a vague definition without any specific citations. You also seemed to ignore the vast majority of definitions on that page, which included:

"In games with complex physics and flexible object interaction it may be possible to complete in-game problems using solutions that the game designers did not foresee."
"Unintentional emergence occurs when creative uses of the video game were not intended by the game designers."
"Emergent gameplay can arise from a game's AI performing actions or creating effects unexpected by even the software developers."
"In several games, especially first-person shooters, game glitches or physics quirks can become viable strategies, or even spawn their own game types"

There's a pretty clear trend in all of those definitions: lack of developer intention. Referencing that page did not help your argument.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
34. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 20, 2014, 16:31 Jerykk
 
Verno wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 09:14:
Jerykk wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 00:28:
Good to see Banner Saga doing well. Well-written, plenty of tough choices, deep combat, fantastic art and a really interesting approach to the genre. I really like the sense of being on a journey, rather than the theme park feeling I get from many RPGs.

What is the combat like? I've heard conflicting things on it. One friend says its pretty good while another dislikes it due to some gimmick about allowing units to live with low health rather than finish them off so high power units can use less turns. I didn't really understand it. I was thinking about picking it up when I'm between games.

Not sure what he's talking about. Your characters don't die in combat, they're just incapacitated for the rest of the match and then stay injured for a few days afterward. Injuries reduce your health and damage but you can still use injured characters in subsequent matches.

The biggest issue I have is with the leveling system. Basically, characters get promoted based on number of kills (which makes it harder to level up weaker or support characters). Once eligible for promotion, you have to spend Renown (which is basically XP) to actually promote them the cost increases with each promotion. However, Renown is also used to buy supplies which are necessary to prevent your people from starving to death. In the late game, you're basically spending all your money on supplies so you can't afford to promote your characters anymore.

Aside from the leveling system, the combat is enjoyable. The different classes work together in interesting ways and there are a lot of potential strategies you can use in any given fight. Most fights are pretty close, as well. I don't think I've won a single fight without losing at least one character.
 
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News Comments > 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games
17. Re: 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games Jan 20, 2014, 12:28 Jerykk
 
HorrorScope wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 11:44:
SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 11:10:
I thought for sure World of Tanks or Planetside 2 was going to be in first place.
I've never even heard of Crossfire

Figured LOL, as others I haven't heard of Crossfire, looks like every other multiplayer FPS. Other countries that aren't melting pots, they seem to embrace in mass singular games, so in their world there can be one. Like minds, I suppose.

I always chuckle that LOL defenders say it's not PTW, it is just skins. So people are spending crazy $$$'s on just a new look and not real functionality? Ah no. My guess is when you get your ass handed to you, you try different tactics and then different characters to see if you can overcome deficiencies. But they are different, it's not just looks.

You don't have to pay for new characters. You can buy them using the in-game currency which you get every time you play a match. And if you play LoL on a regular basis, you'll always have enough in-game currency to buy new characters.

The only part of LoL that could qualify as P2W are the XP boosters. Your runes, masteries and summoner spells are all locked behind levels so a level 1 player has an inherent disadvantage against a level 30 player (though the matchmaking would never put them in the same match). You also have to pay for more rune pages, which is stupid.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
26. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 20, 2014, 04:40 Jerykk
 
Skyrim isn't bad but it's basically a polar opposite to Banner Saga. Nothing you do in Skyrim really matters whereas everything you do in Banner Saga has long-term consequences.  
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News Comments > Games for Windows LIVE Deathwatch
37. Re: Games for Windows LIVE Deathwatch Jan 20, 2014, 04:38 Jerykk
 
Well, that's disappointing if true. If MS doesn't shut down GFWL, they sure as hell won't improve it either. It will continue to linger like a tumor. Thankfully, it looks like almost every publisher and developer has already abandoned it so at the very least, we won't have to bother with it in future titles.  
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News Comments > Thief System Requirements
67. Re: Thief System Requirements Jan 20, 2014, 04:20 Jerykk
 
Qbex . wrote on Jan 20, 2014, 02:47:
Jerykk sorry dude, don't want to gang-up on you but your definition of emergent mechanic in game is not entirely correct. One would argue that all player in-game actions are an effect of planned range within game systems and simulation. Other would argue that none of those actions were foreseen by game designers in simulation type of game. Main problem with your Tribes example is that's Tribes is a multiplayer game and its a human vs human interaction in that game that's uses exploit or emergent by your definition. Do you have any other examples of emergent gameplay like this in single player game?

I already provided examples of emergent gameplay in single-player games. Deus Ex has plenty of it. The designers never intended for you to use LAMs to climb walls but you can do that. That is emergent gameplay. The designers never intended for you to run around, find every crate/trash can/barrel you can carry, stack them on top of each other and then climb up to areas you aren't supposed to reach. You can do that in the newest DX too. I even managed to reach an area where I could see outside of the level. Even HL2 has emergent gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV-AWxqYAgc. Needless to say, Valve never intended for players to exploit physics bugs and fly across the levels. That is emergent gameplay. And yes, exploiting a bug does constitute emergent gameplay because a bug is simply unintended behavior. Emergent gameplay is defined by unintended behavior within a game's systems.

I'll give you example, in Thief I can shoot a broadhead arrow near a guard to distract him, is this planned or not planned by designers ? They given you noisemakers for that but i can even distract the guard by dumping blackjacked dude to the pond near by for the same effect, is this all planned by designers?

Yes, those were all planned. Broadhead arrows were designed to make noise. Dropping bodies into water is designed to make noise. The AI is designed to react to noise. That's no coincidence. All of these interactions were by design. As I've said, the Thief games had flexible systems that offer many solutions to any given problem. However, none of these solutions were unexpected or emergent. Also, you'd be surprised by the emergent gameplay that QA can discover. They spend all day testing systems and trying to break them so it's not uncommon for them to discover emergent solutions.

This comment was edited on Jan 20, 2014, 04:34.
 
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