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Real Name Jerykk   
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Nickname Jerykk
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Signed On Apr 23, 2004, 02:42
Total Comments 14013 (Ninja)
User ID 20715
 
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News Comments > Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released
109. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 02:02 Jerykk
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 01:55:
Jerykk wrote on Feb 5, 2014, 01:36:

Out of curiosity, how many crates could you pick up/throw/shoot in the previous Thief games? How many objects even had physics?

Pretty much all of them? Have you not played Thief or something? Secrets, both in official and fan missions, often depended upon clever crate stacking to find, and crates could often provide unintended ways of navigating levels. Frankly, it's rather bizarre that you're shit-talking Thief while holding DX as a pinnacle of design: every charge you leveled could just as easily be said of DX, i.e. you could put tools together in creative ways, but every tool was hand placed by the developer.

Huh, you're right. I totally forgot that there were some objects you could move in Thief. Probably because there was rarely any reason to.

As for DX, like I said before, its systems were far more complex than Thief's. Emergent gameplay is unintended gameplay that emerges from the interactions between systems. The more systems you have and the more complex these systems are, the greater the potential for emergent gameplay. You had augmentations which drastically changed gameplay and had multiple upgrades with varying implications. The leg augmentation that increased your movement speed, jump height and reduced fall damage made a huge difference in where you could go. Couple that with the strength aug and the wide variety of objects you could pick up and you have plenty of opportunities for emergent gameplay.
 
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News Comments > Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released
106. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 5, 2014, 01:36 Jerykk
 
In a simulated environment, if you find a crate and you know your character can pick up/throw/shoot crates, you can put those systems together and influence the game world in a creative way. Compare that with the pre-baked animation of the falling crate in this trailer; everything in this game is tightly controlled by the designers, leading to a loss of player freedom. That result is inevitable. You cannot promote player freedom by pre-designing gameplay opportunities.

Out of curiosity, how many crates could you pick up/throw/shoot in the previous Thief games? How many objects even had physics?

We've had this discussion before. Thief's systems were never complex or flexible enough to provide truly emergent gameplay. Every crate, every window, every door, every candle, every wooden beam, every torch, every shadow, every NPC, every piece of loot... all these things were explicitly placed by the designers. If the designers didn't want you to go somewhere, there was no way you could go there. Unlike Thief, Deus Ex had plenty of emergent gameplay because it had more systems and those systems were far more flexible.

Your portrayal of the Thief series as the pinnacle of emergent gameplay is simply inaccurate. What's been shown of the new Thief looks just as systemic as the previous games. Buildings still have multiple entrances, the AI still reacts to sight and sound and you still use shadows to conceal yourself. The fact that you equate a scripted crate with the total removal of systemic gameplay is the epitome of reactionary nonsense. You know how you could open doors with keys in the original Thief? Or douse torches with your water arrows? Or lodge rope arrows into wooden beams (and only wooden beams)? THOSE WERE SCRIPTED INTERACTIONS. Just like shooting a hanging crate to make it drop.

On a side note, DX:HR didn't offer nearly as much emergent gameplay as the original DX yet it still turned out to be a great game. And unlike Thief, DX was very much defined by emergent gameplay.

This comment was edited on Feb 5, 2014, 01:51.
 
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News Comments > Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released
98. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 4, 2014, 23:42 Jerykk
 
Squirmer wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 20:00:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 18:49:
Now this has to be a Stealth Sim?
Considering it's called Thief, yeah. There are very few games that are actually pure stealth in a simulated environment, and it's a fucking crime that Eidos would pass up the opportunity to use this IP and make one. Instead we've got some hybrid abomination of Ass Creed and Dishonored made by people who don't seem to understand or care about what made Thief extraordinary to begin with.

If you don't want to fight, you don't have to fight. There are even difficulty mods that specifically make combat impossible. You can disable takedowns entirely and prohibit yourself from neutralizing anyone (even dogs and birds). You can even have the game trigger a fail state if you're detected or take any damage from any source. If you want a pure stealth experience, the game makes that possible.

Also, you act like the original Thief games were pure stealth. They weren't. You could go around shooting guards in the head with arrows or clubbing them with your Blackjack. Combat has always been an option in the Thief games. It just wasn't been a very good option because the combat sucked and stealth was way more enjoyable. I don't see the new Thief being any different in that regard. Ramp up the difficulty, apply the difficulty mods and voila, you have a genuinely pure stealth experience where combat is impossible and detection is an immediate fail state. You can even turn on iron man mode if you want the consequences of failure to be even more severe.

I'm not sure why I even bother with these arguments anymore. It's the same thing every time, whether it be DX:HR, SC: Blacklist, XCOM: EU or any other game that people shit on before release. Same illogical arguments based on unfounded assumptions and false correlations.
 
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News Comments > Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released
65. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 4, 2014, 15:46 Jerykk
 
Slashman wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 13:27:
Jerykk wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 12:32:
No, they complained that you couldn't talk to NPCs in the street and that the houses you could rob didn't have inhabitants. Basically, they were complaining that the game isn't Skyrim. You could never talk to random pedestrians in any Thief game and most of the random houses and apartments you could rob did not have inhabitants. Same applies to Dishonored. You could talk to random NPCs in Dishonored but it seemed pretty silly, considering you were a wanted fugitive wearing a creepy metal skull mask.

Jerykk, the guy detailed sneaking into a brothel then causing a commotion, running from guards and barging into a bedroom with a couple having sex and no reaction from them. They kept on going. They didn't yell or alert the guards.

It's more than not being able to talk to people. He's saying most people don't react to you unless they are guards no matter what weird stuff you do.

I have my doubts about that report. The scene in question takes place in a brothel where nobles and rich people like to attend. As such, it wouldn't surprise me if the NPCs were smoking opium, thus explaining their nonchalant response to Garrett. That, or he was actually in a shadow. If neither case is true, then yes, there's cause for concern.

There's a walkthrough of a mansion level where servants are all about and they definitely react to the player.

Really the best they could hope for is being equivalent to Splinter Cell: Blacklist- a reboot that captures none of the same charm of the original, but is fun in a completely different way, and should have had a different title.

Unfortunately they're on pace to be another Hitman: Absolution- a semi-reboot with completely different mechanics that is very pretty but not at all fun, that should have had a different title.

I don't understand this logic at all. The core mechanics of the new Thief are the same as in the previous games. You hide in shadows, you avoid making noise, you steal stuff. You act like they're turning this into CoD or something. Same applies to Blacklist. Blacklist is way better than the original SC. In fact, it's better than every SC other than Chaos Theory. As with the new Thief, the core mechanics remain intact. Hide in shadows or behind cover, avoid making noise, take out guards quietly, etc.

This comment was edited on Feb 4, 2014, 15:58.
 
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News Comments > Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released
40. Re: Gone Gold - Thief; New Trailer Released Feb 4, 2014, 12:32 Jerykk
 
nin wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 11:57:
MajorD wrote on Feb 4, 2014, 11:51:
I have a feeling the game is going to be short too.

And WTF is Jerykk, I'm surprised he's not in here defending it.


It doesn't matter, he'll just pirate it anyway. He used to brag all the time about how he pirated software.

Not sure if you've read any of my recent (as in, anything made in the past few years) posts in Steam-related threads but no, I don't pirate any more. Steam is just so much more convenient these days that I can't be bothered. I'm living proof that providing a superior service can convert a pirate into a customer.

In any case, I have Thief pre-ordered ($30 at GMG was too tempting to pass up) and hope it will be good. There are certainly things I don't like (occasional setpieces, cutscenes, etc) but most of what I've seen and read makes the game seem like a worthwhile entry to the series. I'm not really concerned about length either, as I tend to take my time in stealth games. I fully intend to ghost my way through Thief, collecting every single piece of loot and never neutralizing a single guard.

Well I think it's kind of telling that PC GAMER gave this an unfavorable preview.

They mentioned that the world felt lifeless and actually stealing from people in the streets(when you could find some), brought no reaction.

No, they complained that you couldn't talk to NPCs in the street and that the houses you could rob didn't have inhabitants. Basically, they were complaining that the game isn't Skyrim. You could never talk to random pedestrians in any Thief game and most of the random houses and apartments you could rob did not have inhabitants. Same applies to Dishonored. You could talk to random NPCs in Dishonored but it seemed pretty silly, considering you were a wanted fugitive wearing a creepy metal skull mask.


YOUR GAME IS FUCKING CALLED THIEF


"For inspiration, the developers looked at contemporary Stealth games such as ... SKYRIM."

I hope this game fucking burns. I hope it burns worse than the Syndicate 'remake' did.

Reactionary much? You pay too much attention to marketing nonsense. Marketing will always try to cater to the largest common denominator regardless of a game's genre. Skyrim was immensely popular so obviously they're going to namedrop it. Watch actual gameplay walkthroughs, read the blogs which detail the custom difficulty mods, etc. If you want Thief to be a pure and punishing stealth experience, you can very easily make that happen.

This comment was edited on Feb 4, 2014, 12:45.
 
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News Comments > Blackguards Trailer
2. Re: Blackguards Trailer Feb 2, 2014, 05:18 Jerykk
 
Why do marketing teams still hire awful narrators for their trailers? Seriously, the narrator only made the trailer worse and served no real purpose.  
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News Comments > Report: Ghost Games Layoffs Halt New NFS
6. Re: Report: Ghost Games Layoffs Halt New NFS Feb 1, 2014, 23:21 Jerykk
 
Maybe this means that EA will stop pumping out NFS games on a yearly basis? I used to really enjoy the series but I've felt complete apathy towards it over the past few years.  
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News Comments > Remember Me Developer Bankrupt
11. Re: Remember Me Developer Bankrupt Jan 31, 2014, 12:28 Jerykk
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 12:18:
Zyrxil wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 11:45:
necrosis wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 11:01:
Acleacius wrote on Jan 31, 2014, 09:27:
Best of luck, it sounded like a great story and premise, dragged down by crappy console gameplay design.

What I read, you need a controller to play otherwise get ready to be frustrated. Since I don't use a controller ... ever, there's no way I'm paying more than $5 or $10 bucks for poorly designed controls. There's a enough frustration in the world, without paying someone to frustrate me.
I will second this. Got it on PC at launch and the the fighting later in the game is maddening with KB&M.

How is it maddening? It's a 2 button light/heavy attack scheme. It's hardly the most complex of combat systems.

Anyway, the game is pretty much a boredom sandwich of terrible gameplay with (rare) really cool memory remix sequences.

It was maddening because they give you all these combos that you cannot pull off without being interrupted by being attacked. You basically have to keep hitting light attack forever. It wasn't like Batman where you can work things into a continuous attack pattern by throwing in counters. (Although I find the Arkham combat boring as shit too.)

That's not really true at all. As in Arkham, positioning and crowd control is key. Separating and/or stunning your enemies so you have time to beat up individual ones is how you pull off the longer combos.

For what it's worth, I didn't think Remember Me was that bad. The combat and traversal were pretty mediocre but the setting was interesting and the memory remixes were interesting. For $10, the game is definitely worth a look.
 
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News Comments > On Sale
11. Re: On Sale Jan 30, 2014, 23:20 Jerykk
 
Blacklist is great. Probably the second best SC game (after Chaos Theory).  
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News Comments > Spicy Horse Downsizes Due to Akaneiro Debt
14. Re: Spicy Horse Downsizes Due to Akaneiro Debt Jan 30, 2014, 01:47 Jerykk
 
Seems like bad management. Not sure they went from needing $200k to $2 million. If they hadn't exceeded their budget, they would have made $300k in profit. Not fantastic but better than being in debt for $1.7 million.  
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News Comments > BioShock Infinite: Burial at Sea Episode Two Trailer
2. Re: BioShock Infinite: Burial at Sea Episode Two Trailer Jan 28, 2014, 23:48 Jerykk
 
Atlas was an actual character? I thought he was just an alias that Fontaine used to rally the people against Ryan.  
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News Comments > Shadowrun: Dragonfall Delayed; Preorders Underway
10. Re: Shadowrun: Dragonfall Delayed; Preorders Underway Jan 28, 2014, 23:46 Jerykk
 
Shamans felt underpowered in the OC. Summons were expensive consumables that had a high risk of either escaping or going berzerk, making them a last resort in most battles.  
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
87. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 28, 2014, 23:36 Jerykk
 
And you are focusing on "sales and budgets" which is not he point, but rather that DayZ mod massively increased the sales of Arma 2, generating them a lot of revenue to use to develop the stand-alone. A ballpark estimate is easy enough to figure out, and considering a lot of work had already been done on the mod for free...there was a large jumping off point, which they clearly have failed to take advantage of.
But you have no way to refute this, so you attack one meaningless statement instead of the real fact of the matter...which you tend to do a lot of around here.

You seem to be forgetting the existence of ArmA3, which had the highest production values of any BiS game yet. Any profits they made from ArmA2 likely went towards ArmA3.

Also, you can't argue that sales and budgets are beside the point when the point revolves around those very things. You're assuming that BiS has enough money to fund DayZ without resorting to Early Access but you can't make that assumption unless you know how profitable ArmA2 and ArmA3 were. Neither budget nor lifetime sales are publicly available for either game so you really aren't qualified to make any assumptions about their profitability.

I'll say it one last time, there are benefits and downsides to the program. A lot of people seem to be willing to completely dismiss the downsides with the argument that the customer was warned. Changes need to be made to keep the companies accountable.

Nobody is dismissing the downsides of Early Access. They've all been recognized in this thread. What we've been dismissing is your claim that Early Access needs to change because you don't like it. If it does indeed need to change, the market will make it change. Consumers ultimately decide what succeeds and fails. If EA and Ubisoft try to exploit Early Access by releasing shitty, broken games, consumers will not buy said games. If too many Early Access games are never finished or improved, customers will lose faith in the system and stop supporting it. Change will occur naturally.

This comment was edited on Jan 28, 2014, 23:43.
 
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News Comments > Steamships Ahoy - Broken Age Act I
14. Re: Steamships Ahoy - Broken Age Act I Jan 28, 2014, 23:24 Jerykk
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 28, 2014, 16:23:
Just goes to show you dudes have somehow lost common sense simply because it's a Tim Schafter game.... maybe if you guys played recent Point and Clicks you'd have some bearings left to see this for what it is, a mediocre 4 hour game with lame puzzles.

Whispered World or Memoria are light years ahead of this. Memoria especially. Meh.

Maybe I am the only one who expected MUCH more?

I didn't think it was mediocre at all. The puzzles were easy, yes, but the writing, voice acting and art were all top-notch. Schafer has said that the puzzles will be harder in Act 2, which should address the only real issue I had with the first act.

For what it's worth, I beat the first act in 3 hours and that was with me trying out random interactions just to see what the characters would say. If the second act is the same length, that's a 6 hour game for $15. Not too bad.

If you paid more than the minimum required to get the game, that means you were willingly paying for more than just the game. I do agree that the Steam price is a bit high, though.
 
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News Comments > Thief Previews; Videos
35. Re: Thief Previews; Videos Jan 28, 2014, 01:41 Jerykk
 
Then we both have a different definition of a game being on rails (maybe "on rails" is a wrong choice of words, but what I mean to say is perfectly clear so let's not get stuck on semantics). To me, THIEF is on rails because there's no question/"illusion" whatsoever that you can only do what the devs tell you to. Sure, the devs give you multiple choices, but you cannot -- in any way! -- solve an obstacle in such a way the devs would be like "What the hell? Even we didn't think of that!". Have you played DX:HR with the dev commentary? I have. From start to finish. Apparantly there were allot of moments where the devs were saying almost exactly that.

I never encountered any genuinely emergent gameplay in any of the Thief games. It was always pretty clear that I was doing what the designers intended because the game's systems were never flexible enough to allow me to do otherwise. In DX, the emergent gameplay stemmed primarily from your strength & jump augmentations combined with your ability to pick up and move objects. Thief never had any such systems, meaning you were always limited to the options the designers created for you. The presence of manual jumping didn't change that which is why I don't think its absence is problematic in the new game.

Also, it's a bit silly to assume that emergent gameplay can only occur as a result of manual jumping. THIEF still has the AI, light/shadow and sound systems of the original games and it's conceivable that some random interaction could cause the AI to act in an unexpected way. We'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure that it, much like its predecessors, won't have even remotely as much emergent gameplay as DX.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
78. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 12:33 Jerykk
 
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:42:
Really Jerykk, I know you aren't stupid...are you just being obtuse on purpose? You don't need to see DayZ development budgets or Arma budgets, or sales figures to see how much DayZ has influenced sales of Arma 2. And if you think BIS has big budgets, you are off your rocker. If they had money they (theoretically) would make better and less buggy pieces of shit games. If they had spent any money on the stand-alone development, it wouldn't have taken them well over a year to get to the point they are now (which is still behind the mod) in development, with no end in sight. Most companies that spend millions upon millions of dollars on game development are frivolous with the money. I've been in one of those companies, I've seen it first hand.

Plenty of these stories out there about how Arma2 sales saw massive increases (to a 3 year old game) after the release of the DayZ mod.

Arma2 Server list majority running DayZ.

Credited for selling over 300,000 copies of Arma 2 in DayZ's first 2 months of release. I see you had linked the same story earlier...what you failed to note was that it was just regarding the first two months after release, not total sales for the last 2 years. That article was written 2 months after the release of the mod.

Not enough? How about this one...

Most of these stories are approaching 2 years old at this point. http://dayzmod.com/ 1,737,741 Unique Players. Do the math.

Those are nice links but none of them provide what I asked for. That is, specific figures for the budgets of ArmA2/Arma3/DayZ. Or even sales figures for ArmA3. As for ArmA2, can you provide any links for its lifetime sales? From what I've read, the DayZ mod boosted its sales by 500% so I can only assume that it didn't sell super well before that.

Anyway, I totally agree that DayZ had a huge impact on ArmA2's sales. That's why I never argued otherwise. Similarly, DayZ Standalone has had a huge impact on BiS's ability to fund their games. DayZ will likely be their most polished game yet, thanks to Early Access.

You're just the pot calling the kettle black... A game being buggy or incomplete doesn't mean it's automatically impossible to enjoy playing it. More PC gamers enjoy playing DayZ RIGHT NOW, despite the bugs and missing features, than they enjoy playing Assassin's Creed IV, Call of Duty: Ghost, Payday 2, and many other new "finished and bug-free" games.

This. The million+ people currently playing DayZ are enjoying the experience despite the bugs and missing features.

I mean, really, what exactly is the issue here? Bohemia has a history of releasing buggy and unpolished games anyway, probably because they had to release them prematurely in order to start generating revenue. It's not any different with DayZ, except they warn you that the game is buggy and incomplete. I can think of a number of games that would have benefit from being in Early Access (X: Rebirth immediately comes to mind) before their official release.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2014, 12:43.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
55. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 05:46 Jerykk
 
Yep, Google. You have fingers, use them.

I did. All I could find was the 300k sales figure for ArmA2. No development budgets for either ArmA 3 or DayZ. No sales figures for ArmA 3 either. Maybe I'm just bad at Googling. Can you share your links that have these numbers, please?

Thousands of game companies have managed to get funding from other sources for 30 years prior to the invent of Early Access. As I've already shown, companies like Ubisoft and BIS already have the money to fund the development of their games without needing the drip feed from Early Access sales.

Yes, those sources were called publishers. Indies have put out games too, though none with the same scope, complexity and production values of Bohemia's games. Development costs are only rising and I'm pretty sure ArmA3 hasn't even become profitable yet. Hell, if it weren't for DayZ, I'd be surprised if Bohemia was still around.

Also, you really need to stop putting Ubisoft and BiS in the same sentence. When you do that, you are implying that they are equally capable of funding games. That couldn't be further from the truth. There's a reason why Ubisoft is disappointed when Splinter Cell: Blacklist sells 2 million units, whereas BiS issues multiple celebratory press releases when DayZ sells 1 million.

There are definitely some benefits for Early Access...there are a lot of negatives as well, but you seem to want to turn a blind eye to them.

I believe I already pointed out the negatives. There is definitely a risk for consumers in that there's no guarantee of quality or even that the games will be finished. But again, these risks are made readily apparent by simply reading the Early Access warnings on the store pages.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2014, 05:55.
 
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News Comments > Thief Previews; Videos
33. Re: Thief Previews; Videos Jan 27, 2014, 04:01 Jerykk
 
Out of curiousity: Why? Why do you prefer it?

Because I like having more control over my character. However, I can recognize when that control (or lack thereof) has a meaningful impact on gameplay. If the traversal system is as flexible as the previews seem to suggest, the lack of manual jumping will not have a significant impact on the new Thief. It will not mean you are "on rails," as that's a matter of level design, not controls. As far as I can tell, the levels are open-ended which is the exact opposite of "on rails."

The truth is, other people have different opinions of what they expect in a quality PC game, and they don't necessarily jibe with yours. When we voice those ideas, it seems impossible for you accept that they are anything but "minor nitpicks", "absurd conclusions", and "faulty logic", and you feel the need to weigh in with a "correct" perspective.

I'm sorry but your arguments are usually illogical. For example, claiming that the lack of manual jumping is due to consoles doesn't even make sense, given how many console games have manual jumping. Hell, the last Thief game had manual jumping and the game was clearly designed for Xbox. Claiming that button prompts dumb down the game is equally silly, given that you can disable them and that the functionality remains the same regardless of whether or not you can see a prompt.

What your arguments essentially boil down to is "new games aren't exactly the same as old games so they must be worthless pieces of crap." If that's what you genuinely believe, go ahead. Just don't expect me to sit by and let you spout your nonsense without any sort of rebuttal.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2014, 04:09.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
52. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 03:43 Jerykk
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 01:59:
StaticRandomNumber wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 00:16:
People paid $50 for Battlefield 4, think DayZ may not be as pretty but has more polish in terms of stability.

Trollbait +10

It's not really trollbait. BF4 was broken at launch, remained broken for weeks (months for some customers) and, unlike Early Access games, gave no warning of this to customers. The DayZ store page gives tons of warnings that the game is buggy and unfinished. DayZ also costs half as much as BF4.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
46. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 01:37 Jerykk
 
When it comes to BIS and DayZ, they sold a shit ton of Arma 2 based on the DayZ mod alone, that they never would have sold otherwise. From what I recall, the sales figures are more than easily enough to have funded both Arma 3 and the stand alone DayZ without them having to do Early Access and bleed more money from people.

You have a source for these sales figures and the development budgets of ArmA3 and DayZ? I feel like you're greatly underestimating how expensive games are to make.

According to this, ArmA2 sold a little over 300k with the help of the DayZ mod. Before the mod, they likely sold half as many units, if even that.

Your opinion. Not a fact. There are people that thought micro-transactions would be good for games too...

Except my opinion actually has a logical basis. Microtransactions don't provide revenue during development nor do they offer useful player feedback. Microtransactions exist solely to generate revenue without requiring any new content.

Personally I think if they want testing and feedback from the public, the alpha/betas should be free and only charge for preorder a couple months before official release as preorders. OR, allow full refunds on these games up until they are officially released (maybe they already do)...just as Valve already gives refunds on pre-order games.

But then the benefit of generating revenue during development would be lost. Without this revenue, development suffers because the developers can't afford to hire more people or are forced to work other jobs to pay the bills. In this respect, Early Access is a great alternative to publishers. Instead of designing a game for a bunch of suits, you get to design a game for your actual customers. Are there risks? Sure. But customers are made well aware of these risks before they spend any money.
 
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