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User information for Krovven

Real Name Krovven   
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Nickname Krovven
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
ICQ None given.
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Homepage None given.
Signed On Oct 17, 2003, 03:30
Total Comments 6802 (Guru)
User ID 19048
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
83. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 17:00 Krovven
 
Beamer, you wouldn't consider Ubisoft putting Might and Magic or Ghost Recon Online up for Early Access as shady? Or Starbound, considering the success of Terraria? Early Access is still very new. It won't be long before we start seeing more and more big companies and already successful smaller devs using Early Access, not because they need to, but because they can. As already made clear by some people here, they will think that adding a line of text to the store page somehow absolves those companies from any responsibility after the customer has given their money.

I'll say it one last time, there are benefits and downsides to the program. A lot of people seem to be willing to completely dismiss the downsides with the argument that the customer was warned. Changes need to be made to keep the companies accountable.


 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
82. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 16:46 Krovven
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 11:25:
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:43:
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:26:
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 04:35:
Jerykk wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 01:37:
You have a source for these sales figures and the development budgets of ArmA3 and DayZ?

Yep, Google. You have fingers, use them.

Translation: Due to the possibility and probability of me being wrong, I'm not going to cite my sources. Instead, I'll ask you to go out and try to find the information yourself and then just say you're bad at google when you can't do it.

You were saying? Don't bother taking the foot out of your mouth, it suits you.

At a glance, none of the links you provided show development budgets for Arma3 and DayZ. See the original quote above if you're confused on the sources you need to cite during your second attempt.

Hey... at least you tried.

And you are focusing on "sales and budgets" which is not he point, but rather that DayZ mod massively increased the sales of Arma 2, generating them a lot of revenue to use to develop the stand-alone. A ballpark estimate is easy enough to figure out, and considering a lot of work had already been done on the mod for free...there was a large jumping off point, which they clearly have failed to take advantage of.
But you have no way to refute this, so you attack one meaningless statement instead of the real fact of the matter...which you tend to do a lot of around here.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
68. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 08:37 Krovven
 
Redmask wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 07:41:
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 07:25:
What's your point? Does this somehow make it ok to charge people for buggy incomplete games, just because they warned you ahead of time?

Yes it makes it ok. The market will bear it or not. The people were warned. Nothing is wrong with that situation. I don't agree with it so I don't put any money into early access games but that's my choice. No one is forced to do this and they certainly aren't entitled to refunds when they have every warning in the world ahead of the purchase that it is buggy and feature incomplete.

I would love to see early access games go away too but that's really a different discussion and it's different than buying a supposedly feature complete game which is advertised as such.

It's not a different discussion, that's kind of the point. It's all connected. There are many downsides to selling incomplete games with the promise they may one day be complete. Just because they added a little text on the store page (to me) doesn't make it ok. I looked, Early Access games are not applicable for refunds, despite technically being preorders. If the game never even gets out of Early Access, gets cancelled, the game completely changes from what was advertised, etc, etc...too bad. When it comes to "final" release games, consumers have rights, granted most companies do everything they possibly can to prevent you from exercising those rights and most people won't bother. What they are basically saying is you have no rights if you buy an Early Access game, because they put a little text on the store page warning people. BTW, that text is not as upfront on most Early Access game store pages as it is on the DayZ page.

WarZ (aka Infestation) had pricing tiers for preorder, beta, alpha early access. Look how that turned out. People had a shit, the game was removed from Steam briefly, they changed some descriptions and then put it back on Steam. Apparently to this day, in it's "final" state, it's still a buggy feature incomplete mess, despite going through it's own supposed early access public alpha/beta.

Yet, now over a year later, it's being considered perfectly acceptable business model by some for this practice to continue with other games.

 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
67. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 08:04 Krovven
 
TotalBiscuit discusses Early Access

One things TB pointed out...

From Rust's store page:
"We haven't totally decided where the game is headed...But we have a plan...so please trust us."

/facepalm

 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
64. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 07:25 Krovven
 
InBlack wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:59:
@Krovven:

Alpha = Buggy, Incomplete, Possibly broken, ADVERTISED AS SUCH!

Release = Buggy, Incomplete, Possibly broken, ADVERTIZED AS NONE OF THESE THINGS!

See the difference??

What's your point? Does this somehow make it ok to charge people for buggy incomplete games, just because they warned you ahead of time?

Don't misunderstand me, if stupid people want to throw their money at companies to be alpha and beta testers, they have every right to do so. It however, doesn't mean I have to agree with it and just keep my mouth shut while stupid people and their money tell game companies that it's ok to charge people to test their games and not allow refunds if they don't like what they preordered.

Just about everyone I know (including myself) was excited at the prospect of Early Access (and Greenlight) when it was put in place. Since then however, people have seen a lot of problems with it and the negative impacts it has.

 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
61. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 06:53 Krovven
 
jacobvandy wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:12:
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 00:15:
Jerykk wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 22:25:
Ubisoft and BiS aren't even remotely comparable.

I never compared Ubisoft to BIS. They are both however established companies. When it comes to BIS and DayZ, they sold a shit ton of Arma 2 based on the DayZ mod alone, that they never would have sold otherwise. From what I recall, the sales figures are more than easily enough to have funded both Arma 3 and the stand alone DayZ without them having to do Early Access and bleed more money from people.

BIS originally had stated that the DayZ stand-alone alpha would be released by the end of 2012. This was stated in Septemeber 2012. It took them over an entire year for them to release that alpha and get to the point where they are now, which is still nowhere even remotely complete and they still say it will be at least another year before they even get to beta. Meanwhile, they are taking peoples money, despite having raked it in from the massively increased sales of Arma 2. It's fucking ridiculous.

To clarify, my reference to Ubisoft was regarding the established Might and Magic series game that was put on Steam as Early Access. Granted (from what I read) it was released in a much more finished state than most Early Access games. But this doesn't make it any better. If they want people to QA their games, hire people, hire a third party QA company...don't charge people full price and call it a pre-order.

It's one thing to have a pre-order and grant beta access with a few weeks or a month before release...it's entirely something else to charge people $30-$50 (or more in some cases) when a game isn't even feature complete and is a year or more from release.

That's funny, I was pretty sure that people are giving their money to play these games (often throwing it at the screen). But when you disagree with the business model, suddenly it's the evil developers taking it by force, against their will...

Just because people are willing to throw their money around for incomplete games doesn't automatically make it a good thing. Oh the irony with all the complaints from people buying buggy incomplete games, and now it's considered a valid business model to do just that.

As usual, some people can only see things in black & white. No way in hell something can have both positives and negatives and changes ever be made to improve the system. /sacrasm

But hey, why am I surprised when asshats insult someone from expressing their opinion about wanting a refund for a game they didn't like (that is technically a preorder and should be allowed). Nope, people need to tell him how wrong he is for having his own opinion. Fucktards.

 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
60. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 06:43 Krovven
 
Fibrocyte wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 06:26:
Krovven wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 04:35:
Jerykk wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 01:37:
You have a source for these sales figures and the development budgets of ArmA3 and DayZ?

Yep, Google. You have fingers, use them.

Translation: Due to the possibility and probability of me being wrong, I'm not going to cite my sources. Instead, I'll ask you to go out and try to find the information yourself and then just say you're bad at google when you can't do it.

You were saying? Don't bother taking the foot out of your mouth, it suits you.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
59. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 06:42 Krovven
 
Really Jerykk, I know you aren't stupid...are you just being obtuse on purpose? You don't need to see DayZ development budgets or Arma budgets, or sales figures to see how much DayZ has influenced sales of Arma 2. And if you think BIS has big budgets, you are off your rocker. If they had money they (theoretically) would make better and less buggy pieces of shit games. If they had spent any money on the stand-alone development, it wouldn't have taken them well over a year to get to the point they are now (which is still behind the mod) in development, with no end in sight. Most companies that spend millions upon millions of dollars on game development are frivolous with the money. I've been in one of those companies, I've seen it first hand.

Plenty of these stories out there about how Arma2 sales saw massive increases (to a 3 year old game) after the release of the DayZ mod.

Arma2 Server list majority running DayZ.

Credited for selling over 300,000 copies of Arma 2 in DayZ's first 2 months of release. I see you had linked the same story earlier...what you failed to note was that it was just regarding the first two months after release, not total sales for the last 2 years. That article was written 2 months after the release of the mod.

Not enough? How about this one...

Most of these stories are approaching 2 years old at this point. http://dayzmod.com/ 1,737,741 Unique Players. Do the math.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2014, 07:12.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
54. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 04:35 Krovven
 
Jerykk wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 01:37:
You have a source for these sales figures and the development budgets of ArmA3 and DayZ?

Yep, Google. You have fingers, use them.

Jerykk wrote on Jan 27, 2014, 01:37:
But then the benefit of generating revenue during development would be lost. Without this revenue, development suffers because the developers can't afford to hire more people or are forced to work other jobs to pay the bills.

Thousands of game companies have managed to get funding from other sources for 30 years prior to the invent of Early Access. As I've already shown, companies like Ubisoft and BIS already have the money to fund the development of their games without needing the drip feed from Early Access sales.

There are definitely some benefits for Early Access...there are a lot of negatives as well, but you seem to want to turn a blind eye to them.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
44. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 27, 2014, 00:15 Krovven
 
Jerykk wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 22:25:
Ubisoft and BiS aren't even remotely comparable.

I never compared Ubisoft to BIS. They are both however established companies. When it comes to BIS and DayZ, they sold a shit ton of Arma 2 based on the DayZ mod alone, that they never would have sold otherwise. From what I recall, the sales figures are more than easily enough to have funded both Arma 3 and the stand alone DayZ without them having to do Early Access and bleed more money from people.

BIS originally had stated that the DayZ stand-alone alpha would be released by the end of 2012. This was stated in Septemeber 2012. It took them over an entire year for them to release that alpha and get to the point where they are now, which is still nowhere even remotely complete and they still say it will be at least another year before they even get to beta. Meanwhile, they are taking peoples money, despite having raked it in from the massively increased sales of Arma 2. It's fucking ridiculous.

To clarify, my reference to Ubisoft was regarding the established Might and Magic series game that was put on Steam as Early Access. Granted (from what I read) it was released in a much more finished state than most Early Access games. But this doesn't make it any better. If they want people to QA their games, hire people, hire a third party QA company...don't charge people full price and call it a pre-order.

It's one thing to have a pre-order and grant beta access with a few weeks or a month before release...it's entirely something else to charge people $30-$50 (or more in some cases) when a game isn't even feature complete and is a year or more from release.

Jerykk wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 22:25:
Ultimately, Early Access makes games better.

Your opinion. Not a fact. There are people that thought micro-transactions would be good for games too...

I'm looking forward to the day that an Early Access game/company folds before the game is even complete. Oh, the shit storm it will bring.


Jerykk wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 22:25:
If you don't approve of buying unfinished games, simply wait until the games are finished.

Did you read all of what I said? And I've said it before. This is exactly what I do. Doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion on the matter, and that some changes need to be made. One change has already been done, being that Early Access games no longer get listed in New Releases on the front page of Steam, until they release as Final.

Personally I think if they want testing and feedback from the public, the alpha/betas should be free and only charge for preorder a couple months before official release as preorders. OR, allow full refunds on these games up until they are officially released (maybe they already do)...just as Valve already gives refunds on pre-order games.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2014, 00:32.
 
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
40. Re: Steam Top 10 Jan 26, 2014, 21:23 Krovven
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Jan 26, 2014, 18:20:
Jesus, is everybody in a shit mood today? So the Bats didn't like an early access game and asked for a refund. Big fucking deal.

I know, right.

If someone played the DayZ mod and decided to buy the stand-alone, it would be pretty fair of that person to expect the stand-alone to at least be on the same level as where the mod was it development.

Personally, I don't agree with the Early Access policies as they are now and take even greater issue with Early Access games going "on sale". It's one thing to back games on Kickstarter that would have otherwise never been made; versus companies like BIS and Ubisoft that have money to properly develop their games milking Early Access to fund development.

This comment was edited on Jan 26, 2014, 21:29.
 
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News Comments > Thief Previews; Videos
12. Re: Thief Previews; Videos Jan 25, 2014, 01:10 Krovven
 
Except you still haven't acknowledged that you can completely turn off the Ui, which seems to solve most if not all of your complaints about button prompts. This makes you sound like you wouldn't be happy with anything.

No jumping...as has been stated many times before, regardless of being able to jump in the original games, this did not mean you had free access to all areas of the environment. There were invisible walls preventing you from jumping into things and into areas they didn't want you to. As I understand it, it's no different than now except you can't just bunny hop around like a moron. If you can climb onto something, you still can by pressing the button to do so. If you can't, it won't work.

I haven't looked at the previews lately and have no intention of it. At some point I may get around to playing the game, or I may not. I'll either be pleasantly surprised, or I will be disappointed. 3rd game sucked and the first 2 games both devolved into unavoidable combating of undead in the late game. And I don't really care that another actor is doing the voice. Actors change, fact of life.

I never held the original games up on a pedestal like some people around here. Willing to keep an open mind and see what happens when I actually play the game instead of making snap judgements like some folks.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
9. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Jan 22, 2014, 17:43 Krovven
 
The best part is they totally contradict themselves between their filing and the response to Kotaku. This won't go anywhere.

 
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News Comments > 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games
58. Re: 2013's Top Free-to-Play Games Jan 21, 2014, 04:51 Krovven
 
OldTimber wrote on Jan 21, 2014, 03:11:
139mil for ToR? god dam star wars fans are a bunch of noload idiots keeping that thing around. Ahh who am I kidding they have wedding ceremonies dressed up in gear so they really are stupid without a grasp on reality.

And what things do you like? Just want to know so we can make fun of it and you for no reason other than to be a douchebag like you.

I find it incredible how gamers are so quick and easy to judge others for games they like and how childish their insults are.

 
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News Comments > Steam Greenlight Ending
4. Re: Steam Greenlight Ending Jan 15, 2014, 16:39 Krovven
 
It won't stop it though. Sounds like they are moving towards allowing any dev to publish on Steam without barriers. It's likely to only get worse as far as crapware is concerned.

 
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News Comments > Morning Mobilization
27. Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 14, 2014, 16:29 Krovven
 
mch wrote on Jan 14, 2014, 16:27:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Jan 14, 2014, 15:10:

Interesting thing - if you ever get a chance to see the President or someone else that thinks they are important, when his entourage goes by, take a QUICK second to look at your cell phone......NO CELL SERVICE!

Sorry Bats, but I live in DC and have been passed by presidential motorcades on multiple occasions. This is not the case.

So what you actually saw was some vehicles with tinted windows...
 
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News Comments > DayZ Sells 1M in One Month
22. Re: DayZ Sells 1M in One Month Jan 14, 2014, 15:52 Krovven
 
There was once a time, people actually got paid a good hourly wage to alpha/beta test for 3-6 months before the games release...AND get a free copy of the game.

Now people are willing to pay tens, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to get early access to play buggy games. It's just retarded.

There's a line between backing something on Kickstarter that otherwise would never have seen the light of day, to something like DayZ where the massive sales boost they received for Arma 2 (from the success of DayZ mod) should have more than covered the dev costs for Arma 3 and DayZ stand alone. Nevermind that it has taken them how long to get to the point they are at now and stating that it will be another year before they even call it beta.

Fuck that.

I think Grim Dawn is the only (still in) Early Access game I own, and that was from backing it on Kickstarter (which I regret at this point). War of the Overworld is the only other that I can think of that I'm interested in and I won't be giving them my money until it's complete or almost complete and likely cheaper.

 
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News Comments > Evolve this Fall; Preorder DLC Bonus Announced
7. Re: Evolve this Fall; Preorder DLC Bonus Announced Jan 14, 2014, 15:41 Krovven
 
I'm interested to see what they do with this game...but putting up pre-orders before showing anything of the game...FUCK OFF!!!

Their website has box art...that's it. There was some concept art in that Gameinformer article that was posted last week. I don't even recall seeing any screenshots.

Is this what publishers seriously think works these days...taking pre-orders before you show anything of the game (especially a brand new IP)?

 
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
4. Re: Morning Consolidation Jan 13, 2014, 16:07 Krovven
 
And on that note...

US PSN Store sale

And Bioshock Infinite free tomorrow.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
14. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 13, 2014, 15:08 Krovven
 
Yosemite Sam wrote on Jan 13, 2014, 14:57:
Jordan is the reason I never, ever, start a series that isn't finished. So I've not even looked at Song of Fire and Ice... heh and Deadwood has made me avoid (mostly) any TV series that isn't complete so I've avoided GoT too.

While I agree it's awful that Deadwood was cancelled, without good reason, I'd rather have those 3 seasons of Deadwood then have never had it at all. Amazing show, superb writing and acting and still one of my favorites. If Game of Thrones were to not exist after the next season or two (book 5, they are making the seasons faster than he can write the books) I wouldn't care. I'd rather have had the last 3 going on 4 seasons and not have had it at all.

Some stories are not meant to have an "ending". Walking Dead comics are still going...at the rate they are making the tv series, the show would still be going 100 years a from now.
 
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