User Information - grudgebearer

The graphics in this game remind of the Quake 2 Action mod...




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

75.

Re: 9 Episodes = 3 retail tittles

Apr 6, 2006, 16:44

Optimaximal
Just go and bitch about StarForce or something worthwhile thats currently in the wild biting at our heels.

You know, I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and go over the points I made earlier, but I see that like nin you are just another rabid fanboi who feels the need tell anyone who debates the merits of episodic content/Sin as bitching.

Grow up dude, one day your parents will allow you to play games with the big boys, come back when you can have an intelligent debate

This comment was edited on Apr 6, 16:47.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

68.

Re: You guys are making a false comparis

Apr 6, 2006, 13:29

MacD
But I will say that there are certain Deus Ex levels, and certain Halflife levels, and levels from Doom, Alice, Thief2, System Shock etc. which I'd happily replay (the rooftops, liberty island...you know the levels if you've played them ).

I agree there are levels that I like to replay especially in Deus Ex, Thief2 and several other games, but I can tell you right now, I wouldn't want to pay $20 for that level alone.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

67.

Re: 9 Episodes = 3 retail tittles

Apr 6, 2006, 13:24

Cobalt
I don't see your logic here (entirely). When you buy 1 game, it has the same gameplay and relative content. So if 3 episodes contain the same content and relative gameplay as a full length title what's the difference. This argument would only hold true if they changed nothing at all in the course of 9 episodes. Which they have already stated is not going to happen. They plan to make adjustments, add new features and content with each episode. Of course this is all words. Until it happens we won't know.

I think you might have missed the point that I was trying to make. With 3 full length games you get 3 gaming experiences, 3 different stories, 3 different styles (sometimes), 3 different game engines (sometimes). So pound for pound per say, you are getting more when you buy three different retail games than when you buy 3 3-episode blocks of Sin, or any other episodic game.

Now that doesn't mean that nothing will change during the episodes, but the core of the game is more than likely going to remain the same so the experience you have with three seperate full length games is not going to be replicated. More apptly you could compare it to a full lenth game and subsequent expansion packs, additional content, but very same gameplay and style.

You are making an assumption that the technology will not change. I think that's a major oversight. The Source engine is going under major revisions atm. And will over the next few years. Valve is moving towards episodic content, heck they've essentially been testing that model for 5 years now with HL1. Constantly adding bits here and there (for free). Using HDR as an example, this was a major rendering addition. More is coming, be sure of that. And unless Ritual does 0 changes to the renderer themselves, which I doubt, expect that they plan to do more with it. Also they are working on their own tech.

I'm not arguing that the source engine technology is not changing, but in comparison with lets say Sin episodes 1-3 and episodes 6-9, you are not going to see an advancement in engine design/implementation as you see in lets say Quake 1 and Quake 3.

So you can't really compare Sin episode blocks to successive installments of a game franchise, because basicly the core of the game is going to be the same or similar to what is released in episode 1.

This comment was edited on Apr 6, 13:27.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

62.

Re: No subject

Apr 6, 2006, 11:30

nin
I never said "anyone not jumping on the bandwagon is just bitching."

Then you should probably have specified as to what the phrase 'bitch about' was referring to, since before your post that ammounted to, bitching about supposed bitching, I thought that we were debating the merits of episodic content delivery systems.

So, is it possible that the only person who was actually 'bitching' about anything, was you?

This comment was edited on Apr 6, 11:32.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

60.

Re: You guys are making a false comparis

Apr 6, 2006, 11:25

MacD
I see all this price/lenght/movie comparing going on, but you're doing in a wrong way.

How it goes (in my mind at least) is like this:

a movie compares to a game (ie the 2 hours for $20 compares to the ten hours@$40-$50); as finished products they compare much more this way than any other price/lenght/whatever comparison. A 1:2 to 1:2.5 ratio, pricewise.

You pay about $50-$70 bucks for a series of tvepisodes on DVD, $180 for the Sin 'season'...a 1:2.5 ratio. So considered that way, it kinda works out.

Still, I think $15 would be a better pricing for these game episodes, purely psychologically.

And all this does mean that the Sin season has to be bloody good, like Futurama or Deadwood good.

I see where you are coming from, and this is just a fundamental difference between you and myself. I haven't payed $20 for a DVD or even a CD for that matter in years, for the same reason as I don't buy into the episodic content system; the content/price ratio isn't high enough that I feel it warrants the price being asked.

The only problem with comparing episodic content for video games, and entire seasons of a television show on DVD is the replayability factor. I got the Band of Brothers boxed set at a used book store, and I occasionally go back and watch an episode or two because I like the story, but there is no interactivity and minimal effort is involved to accomplish this. How many games have you played that you wanted to go back and play just the middle section of, knowing that you were going to have the same experience, just as if you were watching episide 23 of season 4 of Seinfeld? I guess if you can say that you would enjoy it then episodic content is for you, but I don't think that the current implementation is going to appeal to myself.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

57.

Re: No subject

Apr 6, 2006, 11:17

nin
Where did I say that? Quote, please...

Post No. 48




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

53.

Re: No subject

Apr 6, 2006, 10:51

nin

Actually, I was going to comment earlier in this thread that your posts in the SIN threads have been very thought out and reasonable...

But hey, if you want to be an asshole, fuck you too...

nin, if I wasn't an asshole, then the only thing that you would have to bitch about would be the fact that people are debating episodic content and Sin, one of which apparently drives your psyche to such masturbatory heights that the thought of anyone not jumping on the bandwagon is just bitching.

Now you can mix it up and bitch about me being an asshole, and bitch about people "bitching" about episodic content/Sin.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

50.

Re: No subject

Apr 6, 2006, 10:39

nin
But what will they bitch about then?

Oh yes, because debating the merits of episodic content, or questioning the balance of gameplay/price in a game that costs $20/"3-6hr" episode is just being a cheap whiney bitch right?

I think we might have us a rabid fanboy with his feelings hurt guys...be careful




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

46.

Re: 9 Episodes = 3 retail tittles

Apr 6, 2006, 10:21

Cobalt
Argument #2 - Price

People think this game will cost more than a traditional retail release. This is simply not true.

When finished, SiN Episodes will cost no more than 3 traditional full length games. Provided they meet the minimum 3hrs of gameplay for "experienced gamers" that is the same value as releasing 3 full length titles.

What you are equating here is apples and oranges. If you buy 3 full length games you are getting 3 full length gaming experiences. In buying 3, 3-episode blocks of the same game you are getting "more" content, but still a single gaming experience. This is not an equal comparison, especially since no one knows whether the added content will bring new features or it will just be akin to adding more maps with the same gameplay from previous episodes.

It would not even be acceptable to compare the 9 Sin episodes to a trilogy of games such as Quake 1, 2, 3 since in a typical game trilogy the technology and features change with each installment providing a substantially different gaming experience with each new iteration. With episodic content I doubt that any extensive new features will be added with each episode because of the myriad of problems involved in changing core mechanics of a game.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

38.

Re: Well

Apr 6, 2006, 09:25

News Comments > SiN Episode 1 Retail Plans

It looks like episodic content may become the MMOG model for FPS gaming. You buy the initial game at "3-6" hrs of gameplay , and then they release content updates every 4-6 weeks to get more money from you. Is this bad? I guess that depends on how much you want to play the added content, just like with MMOGs you can buy the game and keep paying your monthly fee as long as you want to try to keep getting to the highest level.

I can't imagine that the episodes will have enough diversity of content so that I would want to play/pay for three more hours of gameplay. Lets face it, there is only so much shooting you can do in a game before it just becomes boring, and most FPSs lack depth of story to lessen this dullness.

just my .02




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

12.

Re: Have your stopwatch ready

Apr 5, 2006, 16:22

News Comments > SiN Episode 1 Retail Plans

The ammount of money spent on a game isn't really the issue with why I choose not to buy into the whole episodic content system. My main concern is that publisheres will see this method of development as a way to slap together games even more half-assedly as they do now and release them bug-laden and half-broken (I <3 -'s).

But this quote from the Sin website disturbes me...

Buy as little or as much of the game as you want, with each installment offering 3 - 6 hours of action-packed gameplay

Now we all know that game companies always overestimate the game length in order to generate sales. When I see 3 - 6 hrs per episode, in reality I am thinking about 1.5-2.5 per episode. I really don't like the economics of lets say a 10 episode game that costs me 200 bucks and delivers a whopping combined game length of 17 hours. Call me chincy, but I want more bang for my buck.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

Re: Have your stopwatch ready

Apr 5, 2006, 15:47

News Comments > Battlefield 2142 Announcement

I for one refuse to pay 20 bucks for episodic content. In fact, I refuse to play games that are distributed via episodic content.

That's just me though, everyone else is free to do what ever they want with their cash.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

34.

Re: No subject

Mar 22, 2006, 15:58

News Comments > Battlefield 2142 Announcement

Tango

Meh, for me there are enough futuristic FPS - ET:QW, Unreal Tournament 2007 seem to have the genre pretty well sewn up. For me there aren't enough modern day games. I find these the most immersive. Apart from anything else, I don't see how "mechs" would work. Surely a tank is more stable and better all round design?

The advantage of a Mech/walker would be the ability to go up and over uneven terrain and cross water more effectively since most of the components would be high enough on the frame that they would not be submerged.

A mech wouldn't replace the tank, they both would have roles to fill.

Grudgebearer




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

22.

Re: Popups on BluesNews

Mar 22, 2006, 12:52

News Comments > Battlefield 2142 Announcement

I think once I blackholed the 10 major ad sites that I have added maybe one site to it in the past year.

Maintenance...is not an issue.

Oh and for the record...BF2142 is going to be another "lets all stand around this flag for awhile and shoot, then we can go and stand around that flag for awhile and shoot" game. There has never been any real objecitve-based gameplay in any of the BF series and as long as EA is envolved it will be the same rehashed gameplay with revamped graphics.

ET:QW will make this game look and feel as tired and rehashed as it truly is.

Grudgebearer




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

20.

Re: Popups on BluesNews

Mar 22, 2006, 12:41

Moozilla:

Just set up your own DNS server and blackhole all of those ad sites to 127.0.0.1. I never get any popups anymore unless I come across a new ad site. In fact, many of the shitty advertisements in lots of banner ads are gone too.

Grudgebearer




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

45.

Re: Nice!

Jan 19, 2006, 13:21

FEAR, had excellent AI, singleplayer story was tired, but overall from what I played on a friends rig it had its moments. Multiplayer though is a different story...boring rehashed...

I all you want a game for is the single player AI/story, then by all mean if you are choosing between Doom 3, Quake 4, and FEAR then choose FEAR.

But none of these games offer anyting new in the multiplayer department. I can't justify paying $50 for the short singlplayer portions of these games with the same old rehashed multiplayer, and in the case of Doom 3 and Quake 4, the MP aspect is actually a poorer implementation than previouse titles in the series.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

43.

Re: Nice!

Jan 19, 2006, 12:41

And I seriously doubt Quake Wars is going to be mind blowingly different...

Your "objective gameplay" has been in UT for years now...

nin, camping power nodes and trying to hold the most is about is objective gameplay as much as camping little flags in Battlefield 2 is; no real objective gameplay in UT, just a rehash of capture the flag. I never said that the objective gameplay is going to be mind blowingly different than any other game, but it is leapsand bounds beyond the same rehashed deathmatch/capture the flag scenarios that every single FPS has been built around in the past.

By all means don't take my word on whether or not the objective gameplay is impressive or not...

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62456&page=1

here's some more...

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3147035&did=1
I especially like this quote
"Quake 4 covered the basics of online multiplayer, but for Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, developer Splash Damage has something a bit different in mind. Instead of deathmatch and standard options, it wants to bring the franchise into the world of massive online team FPSs"

Here is another should you like to read it...
http://pc.gamedaily.com/game/preview/?gameid=4393&page=1




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

41.

Re: Nice!

Jan 19, 2006, 09:27

I would say that first of all, I disagree completely that the games you cited are simply prettied-up rehashes, (with the possible exception of Doom3). Are their similar elements? Sure. Show me a completely original property with no borrowed elements from the last 10 years. To be sure, they're out there, but by no means the rule.

Prez, tell me how CoD2, or Battlefield 2, or FEAR even attempt to bring ANY new style of multiplayer gameplay to the genre? The reason they are crap isn't because they borrow from other games, but that in reality they are really no different then the games they borrow from in terms of gameplay. There is nothing really new or innovative about the multiplayer/singleplayer games of the recent batch of FPSs that have hit the market, aside from swanky new physics engines and slick new graphics.

I challenge you to find anything new, as far as gameplay is concerned, where CoD2, Doom 3, FEAR, or Battlefied 2 stand out from their predecessor titles or similar games on the market, that isn't just the same rehashed gameplay that we have seen in every FPS in the last 7 years.




'I'm not going to walk in through the front door - or the side door - and let you do the talking, just like that. You think I got this old not knowing how to stay alive?' - Harlon Nayl

39.

Re: Nice!

Jan 19, 2006, 01:05