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User information for Orogogus

Real Name Orogogus   
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Signed On Feb 22, 2003, 03:15
Total Comments 938 (Graduate)
User ID 16241
 
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News Comments > Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans
68. Re: Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans Dec 12, 2013, 14:41 Orogogus
 
descender wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 14:22:
Health packs are a reward, both for surviving up to that point, and for exploration.

Regenerating health not only removes risk and tension from the game, but reward as well.

And yet it's almost exclusively an FPS thing. Like I said, you look at space sims and virtually all of them (and about half of mech games) have regenerating shields on some or all of the spaceships, and only the arcadiest ones have health pickups to reward you for surviving or whatever.

I don't understand how having different tactical responses to a situation (which allows these situations to be created to challenge the player) is "dumber" than only having 2 responses to a situation (shoot this gun or... that gun).

The same reason games have inventory systems instead of letting you carry every single item with you, forcing you to make choices and play around your shortcomings.

Also to some extent the "people can't carry ten guns including a giant minigun and rocket launcher" thing.
 
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News Comments > Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics Free in GOG.com Winter Sale
32. Re: Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics Free in GOG.com Winter Sale Dec 12, 2013, 14:17 Orogogus
 
Icewind wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 13:57:
harlock wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 13:26:
F1 had the ultra annoying time limit

Why does everyone whine about that? You get 13 years of in-game time to finish the main storyline...how can you do that? I remember when the game came out, I was working at a software etc. store at the time (Pity me) and people were returning it because of that alone. Though, admittedly, I'm sure it was an excuse since they probably burned the disc and wanted their money.

The first time I played FO1, and this was in 1997 before LPs and video guides, I went through completely blind and never hit the time limit.

Second time, did all the side quests....still no time limit. Truth is, I never knew what people were talking about until the Interplay forums schooled me on the 13 year limit.

In all honesty, how bad do you have to be at the game to hit the time limit? I know revealing your vault's existence to NPCs in dialogue decreases it by a year or two, but how can you hit that ceiling? Are you walking the landscape randomly looking for encounters??

The original release version, before it was patched, had the time limit at 500 days. They upped it to 13 years later, which is enough time to do whatever you want.
 
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News Comments > The Elder Scrolls Online in April
95. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online in April Dec 12, 2013, 13:52 Orogogus
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 13:36:
Beamer wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 13:02:
HorrorScope wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 12:52:
Orogogus wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 02:57:
I'd think "true" 3D would be holograms or something, or at least some kind of stereoscopy. Sprites vs. polygons seems like an arbitrary defining factor, textures even more so.

That is right up there with Grammar Nazi.

So is splitting the hairs between 3D world and 3D everything.

I carefully put the word "generally" there, as Meridian 59 is generally accepted as the first 3D MMORPG. Some here may not fall into the "generally," but that doesn't make them entirely right. See: Wikipedia.

Not splitting hairs. 3D games today have everything modeled in 3D. All the objects are truly 3D in that they have all sides. You can move the in game camera 360 around an object and it is all there. Sprites are just that, sprites. One image for front, one image for back. Meridian outdid Doom by having side sprites too, but nothing in that game was 3D. Even the world was 2D sprites.

Back in 1998 we were all excited when EQ was announced because it was using polygons like the cutting edge shooters. It was marketed everywhere as the first massively multiplayer online role playing game with a 3D world.

You came in and corrected me and then expect me not to explain my position or I am in the wrong? Please.

No, no, I came in and corrected you, not Beamer. But to me considering a game with sprites to not be true 3D seems arbitrary, grammar Nazi or not. Most 3D movies are based on a 2D source, while something like Toy Story is still a 2D movie whether or not everything is modeled.
 
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News Comments > Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans
65. Re: Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans Dec 12, 2013, 13:21 Orogogus
 
Jerykk wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 12:37:
Hellbinder wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 11:31:
Suppa7 wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 01:30:
>Can you give me one example of a FPS game that's been "dumbed down" ?

Halo series. Two weapon limit. Regenerating health. Limited game modes/levels compared to past PC fps games. Halo took games back a generation.

I just don't see it. a Two weapon limit is about realism not dumbing something down. no one can run around at full speed with an arsenal of huge weapons and ammo. strapped to their back.

But I like both kinds. There are other FPS games that have no 2 weapon limit and no regenerating health. I don't see where regenerating health is that much different than running over a "health kit" laying randomly in the middle of a hallway.

Its like you guys think every single FPS has to be exactly the same as this one game I played this one time back in 1997 or its "dumbed down".

The other guy mentioned rainbow six. could have a point there. I've never been a big player of the rainbow six games. I think I remember Vegas being more run and gun than strategy.

Halo didn't limit you to two weapons for the sake of realism (Halo obviously isn't realistic in any way). They did it to accommodate the limited number of buttons on a gamepad. Radial menus were not a thing back then so giving you more than two weapons would have made cycling between them a nuisance.

I don't agree about the reasoning being Halo's limited number of buttons. If that were the case, they'd have just copied Wolf3D/DOOM and let you stockpile ammo regardless of whether you have the gun or not. There's the whole thing about not being able to reload the alien guns. Rise of the Triad is, if anything, less realistic than Halo but also has the 2 gun limit, and since it's on the PC it's clearly a gameplay decision there.

Regardless of the why, I feel a game that lets you carry 10 guns is inherently dumber compared to one that limits you to two.

As for regenerating health, it sucks because it removes any significance from getting hit unless you're about to die. If you get hit, you know that you can just hide for a few seconds and bam, good as new. With finite health systems, every hit counts because you can only heal a finite amount and you don't know when you'll next get an opportunity to heal or for how much.

I've never really understood the regenerating health arguments. It's kind of dumb. But so are health packs. Regardless of not knowing when or how much, their purpose is to make hits not count. A space sim that has regenerating health in the form of shields is considered more realistic than one that has health pickups, but for FPSes the opposite is true.
 
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News Comments > Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans
64. Re: Cliff Bleszinski's PC Shooter Plans Dec 12, 2013, 13:08 Orogogus
 
Creston wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 11:48:
Beamer wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 10:43:
Qbex . wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 08:23:
"dumbed down"? we talking full lobotomy here: physics, controls, level design all been marginalised at the cost of cutscenes and shiny graphics.
Now you've left with this :
blops
and this:
maps

I will always say that FPS Map .gif is one of the dumbest things ever. People have rose-tinted glasses about running across the same area of a Doom map 100 times with a new closet full of monsters opening each time you do it, then running across it a few hundred more times without any monsters because you somehow missed the yellow key.

What do rose colored glasses have to do with anything? We're talking about map design. The map in Doom was there. You could run it in any way you chose, though admittedly the keys limited it somewhat. You could also wake up the monsters in one area, run away, lead them to another area, let them fight the monsters there, or get everything all bunched up for a BFG shot. You could speed run it if you wanted to, and you wouldn't have to wait for a frigging NPC to open a door for you. You could run around and lead all the monsters to a certain area, then run towards the exit.

None of these things are possible in most 'modern' shooters.

I don't think that's because they've been dumbed down, it's because DOOM wasn't a storytelling game and didn't have to keep anything sensical. The modern shooter in this context came out of Half Life, not Call of Duty, particularly the bit about waiting for NPCs to open doors, and also the corridor map.
 
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News Comments > The Elder Scrolls Online in April
88. Re: The Elder Scrolls Online in April Dec 12, 2013, 02:57 Orogogus
 
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 12, 2013, 01:26:
Beamer wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 19:26:
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 11, 2013, 19:20:
I beta tested EQ. It was the first 3d MMO to market.

Meridian 59 generally gets that honor.

Except that Meridian 59 was not a true 3D game, but rather sprite based like Doom. EQ was the first MMO to use polygons and textures, so they were the first true 3D MMO.

I'd think "true" 3D would be holograms or something, or at least some kind of stereoscopy. Sprites vs. polygons seems like an arbitrary defining factor, textures even more so.

Semantics aside, I've heard Air Warrior referenced as the first 3D MMO before.
 
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
14. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 10, 2013, 14:32 Orogogus
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 14:04:
theglaze wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 13:07:
Beamer wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 12:14:
For the same reason no PS3 game supported them

The PS3 came out with mouse and keyboard support a couple years ago, I recall trying Counter-Strike Global Offensive. I had an issue with input lag. Not only did it run at less than 30 FPS, but there was a very noticeable mouse lag which made aiming significantly more difficult. Not sure if it was the console struggling to work with my Deathadder, or not being efficiently coded to handle mouse input within an FPS....either way there certainly wasn't an aiming advantage over controllers. I recall the keyboard also being lagged but it was not gameplay crippling.

It had support, but games needed to be coded to take advantage of that support. They didn't do that. Why? Because it would ruin the games.

PC gamers looooooooove talking about how much better the m+k is, because it's so much easier to aim quickly. But then they don't understand why consoles don't have the option of them, claiming it wouldn't break games. Yeah, it would. It would destroy any competitive balance in an online multiplayer game. Right now everyone has the exact same input device with the exact same limitations. Changing that would just blow things up.

I think the other thing that's not necessarily a given is that easier aiming makes a better game, period. Like, if in two years players with retinal scanning eyegear are simply looking to aim, or in fifteen years all you have to do is think your target to death, it doesn't necessarily make the games more fun. I don't shoot firearms, so I don't know if mouse or gamepad more accurately represents the physical limitations of fleshy meatbags aiming and firing guns, but it seems to me there could very easily be a point at which it's much easier on a computer.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
40. Re: Out of the Blue Dec 10, 2013, 14:23 Orogogus
 
KS wrote on Dec 10, 2013, 14:00:
I had a friend who had a digital audio card, which was somewhat a novelty back then

I feel like this isn't accurate, since Wolfenstein came out in mid-1992, and Wikipedia says the Sound Blaster was released in 1989. By '92 they already had the Sound Blaster, the SB 1.5 and 2.0, and the Sound Blaster 16 came out just a month after Wolfenstein. I was kind of a late adopter in my area (held onto an Adlib card for several years), but I always remember Wolf3D having sound effects, including the "Mein Leben!"
 
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News Comments > Ships Ahoy - FINAL FANTASY VIII
15. Re: Ships Ahoy - FINAL FANTASY VIII Dec 6, 2013, 13:19 Orogogus
 
killer_roach wrote on Dec 6, 2013, 02:38:
ShakaUVM wrote on Dec 6, 2013, 01:33:
I never played 8 (past the demo) because of how crappy the magic system was. Steal 100 of a spell to get it permanently? No thanks.

The magic booster might be enough to get me to buy, but - is that all of the spells? Or will you still need to endlessly steal for some of them? It's a deal breaker for me.

Not even close to all of the spells, and a lot of the ones you really want for junctions - Ultima, Tornado, Death, et cetera - aren't in the set.

The CD release at least was really, really easy to edit with a hex editor. The game mechanic just seems so stupidly grindy, I don't even know why they made it that way.
 
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News Comments > Ships Ahoy - FINAL FANTASY VIII
2. Re: Ships Ahoy - FINAL FANTASY VIII Dec 5, 2013, 21:29 Orogogus
 
JeffD wrote on Dec 5, 2013, 21:25:
Be prepared.... prepared to spend %40 of your time battling trash mobs so you can stock up on heals.

They did cut out a big part of the trash mob grind, apparently. From the Steam product page:

===

Magic Booster

When Magic Booster is used, the player’s inventory of the following spells is increased by 100:

Cure, Cura, Curaga, Fire, Fira, Blizzard, Blizzara, Thunder, Thundara, Sleep, Blind, Silence, Berserk, Bio, Esuna, Aero, Confuse, Break, Zombie
 
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
12. Re: Morning Consolidation Dec 2, 2013, 17:01 Orogogus
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 15:57:
Speaking of Puggle, I've been playing PvZ2 and my hats off to them.

Really? I thought PvZ2 got a lot of bad word of mouth for microtransactions and the alternative of replaying levels to grind out cash in-game.
 
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News Comments > Warhammer 40,000: Storm of Vengeance Announced
18. Re: Warhammer 40,000: Storm of Vengeance Announced Dec 2, 2013, 16:46 Orogogus
 
BitWraith wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 15:30:
Orogogus wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 13:08:
Nurgel wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 12:48:
The Dawn of War series doesn't portray them as near as strong as they are in the novels and what not.

To be fair, neither does the tabletop game. Their stat line is about equal to an Ork, and there are a gazillion Orks in the universe.

Technically this is not true. The armor saves space marines get means that a squad of 10 of them can really wreak some havoc on a much larger squad of orks.

That's their power armor. But if I recall correctly the Marine inside used to be WS4/BS4/S4/T4/W1, and I want to say Orks were nearly the same. Less BS, I think. And their I would be lower, which I think hardly mattered back then.

This was in 2nd Ed, but I'd guess the relative balance hasn't changed much up to 6th.

And even with the powered armor... Space Marines are an expensive army, points-wise, and Orks are one of the hordier ones, but even so I'd guess that it was maybe 3-to-1 or 4-to-1 to make a fair fight. I'm sure the fiction has a company of a hundred marines routing thousands and thousands of Orks.
 
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News Comments > Warhammer 40,000: Storm of Vengeance Announced
13. Re: Warhammer 40,000: Storm of Vengeance Announced Dec 2, 2013, 13:08 Orogogus
 
Nurgel wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 12:48:
The Dawn of War series doesn't portray them as near as strong as they are in the novels and what not.

To be fair, neither does the tabletop game. Their stat line is about equal to an Ork, and there are a gazillion Orks in the universe.
 
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News Comments > Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC "Far Superior" to Next-Gen
47. Re: Quoteworthy - NVIDIA: PC Dec 1, 2013, 01:28 Orogogus
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 23:56:
It's completely backward compatible going back 25 years.

I'd probably say "mostly" backward compatible. Strictly speaking, it would be a bit of work to get a disk drive to run any old games you have lying around, especially for booters. And early Win95/98 games can be tricky - compatibility mode, my foot -- and again in the Glide era.
 
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News Comments > Warhammer 40,000: Space Wolf Trailer
8. Re: Warhammer 40,000: Space Wolf Trailer Dec 1, 2013, 00:53 Orogogus
 
Trevellian wrote on Nov 30, 2013, 21:41:
Why is Games Workshop letting all these failure companies make 40K games?

Last I had heard I thought Creative Assembly was supposed to be making a 40k Total War game, wtf happened to that?

How many failure companies are we talking about? From this and a few other posts below you'd think GW was spitting out six games at once, but as far as I know there's this game, Space Hulk just came out, and I think a different Space Hulk game from the E.Y.E. guys. And then the last titles were Space Marine and Dawn of War II. It's not a ton of games, and to be honest I've always wondered why they don't churn them out, Star Wars-style. They've got a captive audience, and 40K is one of the most video game-friendly properties I can think of.

As far as I know the Total War guys are making a Warhammer Fantasy Battles game, not 40K. Seems like a much better fit for them, anyways.
 
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News Comments > Torment: Tides of Numenera Combat Voting
69. Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Combat Voting Nov 25, 2013, 17:33 Orogogus
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 25, 2013, 14:59:
A well designed encounter however, of the sort you're average 15 year old comes up with or that existed in the Gold Box games, can be challenging and memorable, even when, as you say, you've figured out how the system work. Who has played Pool of Radiance yet doesn't remember the troll and ogre encounter in the Slums? Or the encounter with 40+ various kinds of Hobgoblins on Sokol Keep? In the latter, who WASN'T on the edge of their seat fighting a desperate battle that required pulling out all the stop just to have a CHANCE of survival and victory? What about the Kobold King Throne room? I hate to keep harping on the Gold Box games, but as far as turn-based CRPG combat goes, they really are the pinnacle, even 25 years later.

Pool of Radiance was the high point of the series in many ways, unfortunately. All the other Gold Box games were heavy on trash encounters. I mean, the Mulmaster Beholder Corps was something else, but the dungeon it was in had like two dozen random and fixed encounters against a mix of evil priests and Dark Elves. The Dragonlance games at high difficulty were all, "Welp, 40 more Draconians and five or six dragons. Time to get to work," all the time.

The Buck Rogers games were surprisingly neat, though. And I never played the Savage Frontier titles, don't know if they mixed things up there. But from what I remember most of the encounters in Curse, Blades and Darkness were sloggy blah, and the same for the Dragonlance games. Pools of Radiance did a lot with the map and the town that they never really equaled, much less improve upon.
 
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
38. Re: Op Ed Nov 22, 2013, 18:11 Orogogus
 
Simon Says wrote on Nov 22, 2013, 18:00:
I remember the N64 being said to have a weak launch lineup, with Mario 64, Starfox and the likes.

Didn't it launch with just Mario and Pilotwings? Wikipedia suggests Starfox 64 came out like 9 months later.
 
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News Comments > Two New Space Hulk Campaigns
5. Re: Two New Space Hulk Campaigns Nov 22, 2013, 18:02 Orogogus
 
They used to in 2nd edition 40K, I think they lost it in 3rd edition, I have no idea now. But Space Hulk never worked off of armor saves, shooting was resolved in a single dice roll instead of one roll to hit, one to penetrate armor, and another versus toughness (again, I'm several versions of 40K out of date, so that might have been simplified now).

But a lot of Darks's complaints are kind of that he didn't want a Space Hulk game. In 1st ed. Space Hulk I think flamers killed targets in a map piece on a 2 or higher, so there was a fairly high chance of them surviving a blast. They used to need to roll a six on two dice (i.e., 11/36 chance) to kill a Genestealer, so there bad luck streaks of Stealers marching up 5 squares of shooting were definitely a thing. And he's complained before about Marines going down like tissue paper in hand-to-hand combat against Genestealers, which is pretty key to the board game.
 
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News Comments > Fallout 4(?) "Nuclear Winter" Teased
18. Re: Fallout 4 Nov 22, 2013, 15:09 Orogogus
 
Task wrote on Nov 22, 2013, 10:40:
nin wrote on Nov 22, 2013, 10:28:
Its just Elder Scrolls gameplay with Fallout and guns slapped into it.

I'm actually fine with that. Love to see more in the vein of 3 and New Vegas.


And you are not fine or fine with Bethesda stripping out choices for how players want to play Fallout?

The Elder Scrolls engine is so terrible for allowing tactical combat instruction with your followers. Want to run around the Fallout wasteland with a mery band of 3 followers? Good luck instructing them where to stand, where to take cover, what to shoot, where to shoot, etc. So in that way it is exactly like Elder Scrolls game (lacking in tactical strategy with followers, in Skyrim they just kneel down when they lose their health, and they do not die) - and that type of game-play should stay in Elder Scrolls since that is what it is good for.

Fallout 1 & 2 only gave you limited NPC control using broad directives, didn't they?
 
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News Comments > Torment: Tides of Numenera Combat Voting
26. Re: Torment: Tides of Numenera Combat Voting Nov 22, 2013, 14:30 Orogogus
 
Creston wrote on Nov 22, 2013, 14:19:
Orogogus wrote on Nov 22, 2013, 13:49:
Ah, the Ultima VII school of combat. Hit the combat mode button, watch Juggernaut Hammers and Firedoom staff bolts go flying and hand-to-hand guys charging in, and after everything's stopped moving pick up the loot and get back to the game.

I'm assuming this is meant as a sarcastic reply, so I'd like to point out that you had to slog through quite a few hours of pretty difficult combat in U7 before you finally were able to put on that magical armor and wield that Hoe of Destruction. You'd kind of earned your "turn it on and watch shit fly" ability by that point.

It's not sarcastic. I feel like U7 is where this trend started. And while it took time to put that equipment together, the rest still constituted about two thirds of the game, plus the entire expansion pack. And my approach wasn't any different before I got endgame equipment either. I think I steamrolled every fight from randomized mooks to wizards to dragons by just pressing the dogpile button, occasionally casting spells just to see what they do.
 
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938 Comments. 47 pages. Viewing page 10.
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