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User information for Orogogus

Real Name Orogogus   
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Signed On Feb 22, 2003, 03:15
Total Comments 831 (Graduate)
User ID 16241
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News Comments > Star Citizen Livestream
15. Re: Star Citizen Livestream Jun 28, 2013, 23:51 Orogogus
kanniballl wrote on Jun 28, 2013, 22:37:
My biggest puzzler with these kick-starter games, especially niche markets, this is...

OK, you get your startup/production money from the customers instead of some investment by PublisherX. That's cool, then all of the profits are yours and you don't have a publisher telling you what you should be doing and changing your vision.

But... just about everyone that donates gets a copy of the game. So you get your building costs but you lose a sale.

In this case: he has a LOT of donaters. So... once he's done and releases it, how many potential customers will be left?


Does that necessarily have to be a problem? Donaters can and very often do chip in much, much more than the developer would get from a retail sale. Isn't it possible to just make all your money from the donations and not need to make a large number of sales afterwards? Especially for niche games I think it would be easy to find a few people willing to donate a large amount of money but not so easy to get more customers beyond that first pool.
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News Comments > Satellite Reign Images Leak
4. Re: Satellite Reign Images Leak Jun 27, 2013, 20:49 Orogogus
I feel like Syndicate Wars was the modern take. It had 3D with vehicles that weren't tied to rails, it had some more defensive options instead of bigger and bigger offense, it had a storyline. The multiplayer was pretty worthless, and the economy wasn't much of an improvement over the first game, but I've never been really clear what all the posters here think is so much worse in Syndicate Wars compared to Syndicate.  
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News Comments > Avellone: Kickstarter Inspiring Old School RPG Renaissance
21. Re: Avellone: Kickstarter Inspiring Old School RPG Renaissance Jun 25, 2013, 16:01 Orogogus
Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2013, 14:24:
But they don't HAVE to. The Witcher 3 isn't going to cost tens of millions to make, and if anything it looks like Skyrim ++. There have been similar open world titles that didn't cost anywhere near that much.

Admittedly those games weren't as cool as Skyrim, but Skyrim's also a bit of an outlier.

My point is that you don't NEED to spend that much money to make a great RPG.


The development budget for The Witcher 3 is supposed to be $15M, which is up there, plus $25M for marketing, pushing it into the tens of millions range.
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News Comments > Heavy Gear Assault Kickstarter Canceled
20. Re: Heavy Gear Assault Kickstarter Canceled Jun 24, 2013, 21:29 Orogogus
Blackhawk wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 19:48:
m0deth wrote on Jun 24, 2013, 17:03:
All these things being said and so far, nobody mentions that Heavy Gear sucked. Period.

That's because that's an opinion, and a minority opinion. Don't state it as if it were an indisputable fact. The review scores - especially for Heavy Gear II - were high, and a lot of people cite it as a favorite.

I kind of agree, though. Not knowing anything about the Heavy Gear universe, I thought HG2 was a mess.

- Multiplayer had about a hundred variants, and the only way to compare them was to flip through them one at a time in the game -- nothing in the manual, no PDF.

- You had dozens of weapons with damage, range and rate of fire characteristics rated as "good", "fair", etc. so that you'd often have two guns with identical profiles and no idea why one might be better than the other.

- The targeting computer applies a multiplier to your damage, but there's no documentation or in-game information on what that multiplier is.

- Everything you shoot at just has a health bar representing total armor/health, even though damage is per-location, and things die from a green bar all the time. So basically a lot of combat plays out as you shooting a weapon with "good" damage with a hidden multiplier against a target that has a big green health bar, and at some point it either blows up or it doesn't.

- Peer-to-peer online play when all its competitors were already client-server.

- An incredibly vague campaign intro cinematic; the only reason I knew what happened was because I read the online previews.

I do find it weird that people remember it more fondly than MW3 or Starsiege.
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News Comments > No DRM Sale Includes Free Torchlight
19. Re: No DRM Sale Includes Free Torchlight Jun 18, 2013, 16:40 Orogogus
Acleacius wrote on Jun 18, 2013, 16:32:
Thanks for the sale!

Xero wrote on Jun 18, 2013, 15:34:
Is there anyway to link your bought games on gog to steam? lol, I prefer having a 1 stop app to all my games... If it were possible, I would consider this site's deals...
It might cause Steam to add DRM to a GOG game, both Steam and GOG sell. You can always log into Steam, then run your nonSteam game, using the UI and Friends functions, without adding it to Steam.

Realistically, it just would be a matter of providing a Steam key, like they do with the Witcher. As far as I know it's up to the developer or original publisher. A Google search showed that supposedly someone who bought Hotline Miami from GOG was able to email the developer and get a Steam key, but that's kind of open to abuse.

From their point of view I guess the risk is that the buyer gives away the Steam key and it ends up being a buy one get one free sale.
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News Comments > No DRM Sale Includes Free Torchlight
16. Re: No DRM Sale Includes Free Torchlight Jun 18, 2013, 15:39 Orogogus
Xero wrote on Jun 18, 2013, 15:34:
Is there anyway to link your bought games on gog to steam? lol, I prefer having a 1 stop app to all my games... If it were possible, I would consider this site's deals...

Only for the Witcher games, I think, since CD Projekt/GOG was the developer.
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News Comments > Morning Metaverse
8. Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 18, 2013, 15:10 Orogogus
LittleMe wrote on Jun 18, 2013, 14:58:
Pigeon wrote on Jun 18, 2013, 14:10:
The cable companies have been straight out litigious to stop the spread of broadband. Bottom line is they don't want to spend the money to improve their service and they don't want any competition coming in and doing what they won't do.

They have the support of you and I to thank for it. Have we opposed the locally government granted franchises (monopoly) at town/county hearings? This is your government doing the job that you want by stamping out competition.

In San Diego the deals establishing the franchises are long done, and in large part those deals were made 25+ years ago to ensure that the cable companies would service everyone, not just the wealthy neighborhoods. At this point I don't believe there's any active government effort to stamp out competition, but collusion between providers not to spend money fighting each other.

Plus, yes, they do do everything in their power to squash competing technologies.
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News Comments > Op Ed
9. Re: Op Ed Jun 18, 2013, 14:51 Orogogus
That's not his argument, or rather the argument of the post he liked:

"...that the numbers are US only, of course they are, last time I checked, the US where a big single territory for video games with some importance. Madden NFL simply doesn't sell outside the US, nonetheless it's a big title and Microsoft is currently preparing a console, by many considered as being US centric,, but I think Gamasutra won't skip reports about Madden or the Xbox One."

The US is a big territory, but not so big that the other territories are utterly negligible. Japan can float a ton of RPGs, and Europe can support their sports games without the US.

If you're positing that the games industry is in its death throes, as ASeven does all the time and is almost certainly doing here, and point to the 44% decline, then yes, you should take international and digital download numbers into account. Otherwise you're ignoring a sports franchise bigger than Madden because it doesn't move in the US.

It doesn't make sense for Sony to focus only on sales in Japan, and not being in the ad business, I don't see that it makes sense for us to focus on sales only in the US. People posting here aren't even the main demographic represented in those numbers, or else people would be kinder to Call of Duty and Angry Birds.

Also, several posters aren't in the US, so there's that as well, and I assume the same applies to Gamasutra's readership.
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News Comments > Op Ed
4. Re: Op Ed Jun 18, 2013, 13:45 Orogogus
Ya, kind of a bizarre reply. The logic behind keeping hardware seems clear as day, unless there's some kind of digital download service for hardware that's throwing numbers out of whack.

As far as Europe goes:

FIFA narrowly edges out Madden for lifetime sales despite starting five years later, and Winning Eleven / Pro Evolution isn't far behind despite a 13 year gap. FIFA's also at or near the top of the Steam list all the time. Neither of these franchises sell in the US, therefore it must make sense to just throw out US data altogether and use EU only, right? Well, no.
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News Comments > On Sale
21. Re: On Sale Jun 14, 2013, 12:39 Orogogus
There's also a pretty bad slog through a swamp/town chapter. The pacing in the second game is better.  
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
47. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 13, 2013, 21:21 Orogogus
Effiencies were defined as separate from simply making cheaper games in Flatline's post. In that light it seems as nebulous as political candidates promising to save tons of money by cutting wasteful spending. Cutting back high expectations was point B.

In the case of Resident Evil 6, and of Tomb Raider, I don't think it was the case that the games weren't profitable. In both instances these games failed to meet projections, and I don't think anyone said either one lost money. Tomb Raider in particular was derided since it set a record for the franchise but still didn't meet its goals.

Call of Duty is the poster child for the broken model. It's the blockbuster that's forcing all the other games to aim to be blockbusters too. Isn't it supposed to be one of the super-spendy titles, up there with GTA?

Ultimately I do agree about the overemphasis on expensive graphics, but I feel the way people go on about it is misguided. Usually people point at titles like FTL or Minecraft as indie games taking over the reins from big publishers, but those are kind of one-offs. I think a more realistic expectation from big publishers scaling back their insane expectations would be a stream of somewhat janky looking shooters, probably half of them with zombies.
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
44. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 13, 2013, 19:40 Orogogus
Draugr wrote on Jun 13, 2013, 15:44:
Flatline wrote on Jun 13, 2013, 14:03:
That tells me that the next "generation" of gaming should be about making AAA quality games *cheaper* to produce. Meaning faster, easier pipelines.

I've been predicting that games are going to peak on budget since the beginning of the PS3/360 generation. The solution to this isn't to yank fair use doctrine

Used games are not fair use at all. First sale doctrine is what applies here.

and force consumers into what amounts to an outdated pattern of game development, but to push, and I mean *really* push, to make games cheaper and more efficient to produce. That's it really.

Either that or admit that you've hit a certain level of fidelity that is just not economical to get past and go back to investing in content.

Next gen games *ARE* cheaper to produce, at least on a hardware level -- when everything is using such similar hardware, the porting is far cheaper than it used to be. That's not to say there may not be in increase in production costs elsewhere (again, they always feel graphics are king.) but there it going to be an offset because you don't need to worry yourself about making a version that runs on a Cell CPU and a PowerPC CPU.

I think publishers have enormous incentive to get games made more efficiently. I think that's what gets us yearly sports games with minimal changes, free to play, DLC, Starcraft 2 split into 3 titles, and nearly every action game made to console specifications. These are all ways to get games made more cheaply, and people certainly do complain.

I get the feeling that efficiency here just means magic, the way that every game that doesn't run perfectly smoothly is because the developers don't know how to "optimize". Like, is there a ton of evidence that companies use egregiously wasteful methodologies to make games? Game development probably isn't something you can six sigma or 5S into profitability.

On one hand indie games do get a lot of praise here, but on the other you also see a lot of action games taking flak for not going PC-only with visuals beyond what consoles can handle, or giant levels that can't be squeezed into the 360 and PS3's memory. There are a ton of people who complain about graphics -- I don't think it's possible to make a jungle game without people complaining that it pales compared to Crysis 2. A lot of complaints about consolization can be translated into 1) the game should be fancier and cost more to make, or 2) the gameplay should appeal to a smaller, more discerning audience, neither of which necessarily translate into a higher profit to man hours ratio.
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News Comments > Morning Consolidation
56. Re: Morning Consolidation Jun 13, 2013, 14:56 Orogogus
Krovven wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 16:13:
People keep saying that the Xbox One model is just like Steam's model...

There is one massive difference.

Steam doesn't stop working when you have no internet connection for 24 hrs. There is an offline mode.

I guess this is yesterday's news, but note that Steam's offline mode does stop working after 2-4 weeks without an Internet connection, rendering your games inert. Valve doesn't go out of its way to describe this feature, but apparently Valve customer service will tell you need to go online if you run into it.
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News Comments > Evening Consolidation
2. Re: Evening Consolidation Jun 12, 2013, 21:28 Orogogus
Creston wrote on Jun 12, 2013, 21:16:
Way to be pathetic, ESA. It's a hundred dollar console that plays phone game (and does so not very well), and you're being this pedantic dick in trying to stop people from noticing them.

I hereby move we nominate the ESA instead of EA in next year's "Biggest fucking dicks in America" competition.


They're being petty, not pedantic. This is being pedantic.
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News Comments > Mad Max Game Announced
35. Re: Mad Max Game Announced Jun 11, 2013, 17:45 Orogogus
Tanto Edge wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 17:17:
Mad Max RW wrote on Jun 11, 2013, 16:12:
A Starship Troopers movie done right would basically be a scifi Full Metal Jacket. That would be kinda awesome.

You guys and I remember either Starship Troopers or Full Metal Jacket very differently.
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News Comments > FreeSpace IP Sold for $7500
26. Re: FreeSpace IP Sold for $7500 Jun 7, 2013, 16:24 Orogogus
NKD wrote on Jun 7, 2013, 14:47:
Cutter wrote on Jun 7, 2013, 14:33:
Honestly, it's not a big deal. No one's done anything with it forever. Put the $7500 toward actual development and create an homage.

I guess if you really think about it, the IP isn't that amazing anyway. It was the gameplay that was fun. The story and stuff is pretty interchangeable with just about every other scifi setting.

I'd love a space sim set in the Mass Effect universe, but I know that shit won't happen.

I don't know, I've complained about this with other IPs, but I feel Freespace has a reasonably strong background and I could see some value in the IP. FS2 ended on a pretty big cliffhanger, and there are a lot of storylines left unsolved. What happened to Earth after the Lucifer collapsed its jump point in FS1? What do the Shivans want? What happened to Bosch?

It's not like Homeworld, where there's really no storyline left to tie up, or Total Annihilation, which is almost entirely devoid of anything that would be considered protected IP worth grabbing.
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News Comments > Morning Tech Bits
34. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 20:02 Orogogus
Fixing the screen height issue only covered up the fact that people weren't using the Start Menu. It's really rare that I see an average user go in there to start a program. Like I said, the only element I've seen most people use is the Shutdown button.  
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News Comments > Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion Box Not Empty
10. Re: Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion Box Not Empty May 31, 2013, 19:48 Orogogus
ViRGE wrote on May 31, 2013, 19:14:
There are also fewer technical games though. Klingon Academy came with a spiral bound manual, which painstakingly listed information on all of the ships, the weapon systems, major characters, and of course the various powers. It's something of an extreme example, but an example of a particularly dense manual that simply isn't done anymore.

Didn't that A10 simulator on Steam come with a PDF manual nearly 700 pages long?
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News Comments > Morning Tech Bits
32. Re: Morning Tech Bits May 31, 2013, 18:08 Orogogus
Well, I agree that most people I've met don't know how to use the Start Menu. If I had a nickel for every time I opened an old version of Windows to find the Start Menu filled with crap going past the screen height... In practice I find that the majority of people I know use desktop icons for everything, and the Start Menu is just there to shut down the computer.

I can sort of see how that mess ended up as the W8 interface, especially after all these people were apparently able to manage tablet and smartphone interfaces just fine. But not so great for people who were able to navigate Windows in the first place,
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News Comments > Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion Box Not Empty
6. Re: Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion Box Not Empty May 31, 2013, 14:49 Orogogus
Some boxes. I have many fond memories of EA games that came in square cardboard billfolds less than 1/4" thick.  
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831 Comments. 42 pages. Viewing page 10.
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