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Nickname Beamer
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
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Signed On Jan 9, 2003, 00:22
Total Comments 14076 (Ninja)
User ID 15739
 
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News Comments > etc.
120. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 20:13 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 19:40:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 19:33:
None of this has anything to do with anything we were discussing.
Thanks for trying. Everyone agrees Sam Biddle is a moron. Everyone thinks the people favoriting it were idiots. Only you are getting angry at people saying he isn't a games journalist.
Actually it has plenty to do with what we're discussing. He is a journalist, he is a member of gawker. No one is disputing that. What you're failing to catch is that other "game journalists" retweeted it, and marked it as a favorite. Not rocket surgery. Yep they are idiots for doing so, but this reflects directly on them now. That means there's at least 5 other major sites where people also believe that this is acceptable.

Strange, but I don't seem to be angry at anything. Actually I just had a great breakfast for supper. AKA french toast, and am in quite a good mood.

Julio was proud because a game journalist was taken down.
Except he wasn't a game journalist.

Please reread the conversation you entered into because you're quoting it but not at all getting what was being said.
 
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News Comments > etc.
119. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 20:12 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 20:04:
Yeah, you are right -it was Escapist, not Gamasutra. My mistake.

...one that has a lovely "GIRLS!" section and runs regular articles on hot female teachers sleeping with students.

Not surprisingly, they're considered one of the few "pro-GG" sites.

See, this is what I don't get. So if you have a site geared towards gaming males, and you show images of the beautiful female form, "naturally" you are pro Gamergate, and by extension, misogynist. I cannot get that logic. I don't find it to be sexist that guys like seeing images of gorgeous women, any more than I view seeing my hundreds of female Facebook friends pass around images of mostly naked strapping men as sexist. I view it as human.

EDIT: And before anyone asks, I have hundreds of female Facebook friends because I work in animal rescue which for reasons I won't go into is predominantly female (we are talking by a factor of 20 to 1 by my estimation), and I network with rescues across the country.

It is human. Absolutely.
But, again, things come down to trends. Someone telling one racist joke isn't necessarily a racist. Someone telling many racist jokes almost definitely is.
 
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News Comments > etc.
116. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 19:33 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 19:25:
UHD wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 18:35:
It means they agreed with it. It doesn't mean Sam Biddle is a gaming journalist. You can agree with someone without being a part of their clique. The world is not that black and white.
So you're telling me that said "journalists" agree that bullying is a good thing? You're also telling me that in "anti-bullying month" we have this swath of journalists who don't have the optics to see why this is bad. And you're also telling me that these are the people support what many kids in school suffered through and want to do it again.

You know what this seems like? The bullies simply grew up, and got jobs as "social advocates" and "journalists" because the only thing they know how to do is bully people. Well taking a page out of their book, this means that the entire anti-gg segment supports bullying.

None of this has anything to do with anything we were discussing.
Thanks for trying. Everyone agrees Sam Biddle is a moron. Everyone thinks the people favoriting it were idiots. Only you are getting angry at people saying he isn't a games journalist.
 
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News Comments > etc.
113. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 18:56 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 18:22:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 17:41:

Sam Biddle is a moron, but he's a moron that has absolutely nothing to do with games or gamers. He deserves to be endlessly bashed for saying dumb things, but Julio is being a jackass if he thinks that Sam Biddle writes for a game site. He does not. He writes for a gossip site.
Oh? I guess that's why when you look at the tweets, you see all of those "game journalists" retweeting it and favoriting the pro-bullying message right?

And were their ad campaigns removed for it?
No.

I really don't understand what you're arguing. Julio gleefully said something about removing all the advertising from those evil "game" sites, and I pointed out that Sam Biddle does not represent any game sites, and you're, what, arguing that?

I'm certainly not defending Sam Biddle. Just stating that, factually, he is not a game journalist and, anecdotally, very few game sites are running any anti-GG articles or commentary.
 
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News Comments > etc.
112. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 18:54 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 18:17:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 16:37:
As I keep pointing out, game sites have been quiet since the "gamers are dead" articles and that was about 8 weeks ago.

Well there was that abysmal piece (I think it was on Gamasutra) "Here are the opinions of 8 female developers who didn't give there names but you trust me don't you?" followed by page after page of melodrama, scorn, and condescension...

The Escapist has been one of the few sites that keeps running articles. Its founder also had an interview with Adam Baldwin about GamerGate on one of his other sites, one that has a lovely "GIRLS!" section and runs regular articles on hot female teachers sleeping with students.

Not surprisingly, they're considered one of the few "pro-GG" sites.
 
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News Comments > etc.
108. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 17:41 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 17:12:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 16:37:
That douche isn't from a gaming site and Mercedes didn't pull it from a gaming site. He's from a "silicon valley gossip" site.
As I keep pointing out, game sites have been quiet since the "gamers are dead" articles and that was about 8 weeks ago.
Actually he is, so is the EIC. The gawker brand includes gaming on a variety of their satellite sites.

Yes, Gawker owns game sites. He is not an employee of any of them, though. He solely writes for Valleywag.

It's like how Rupert Murdoch owns The Wall Street Journal and The New York Post, but they're not the same and the editor of one doesn't write for the other, right?

Sam Biddle is a moron, but he's a moron that has absolutely nothing to do with games or gamers. He deserves to be endlessly bashed for saying dumb things, but Julio is being a jackass if he thinks that Sam Biddle writes for a game site. He does not. He writes for a gossip site.
 
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News Comments > etc.
105. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 16:37 Beamer
 
Julio wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 16:35:
ASeven wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 14:52:
Allegedly Mercedes Benz has just withdrawn their ads from Gawker Karma's a bitch.

Glad to see it, looking forward to seeing those "gaming" sites wither from treating gamers like crap. Mercedes is making the right move here.

That douche isn't from a gaming site and Mercedes didn't pull it from a gaming site. He's from a "silicon valley gossip" site.
As I keep pointing out, game sites have been quiet since the "gamers are dead" articles and that was about 8 weeks ago.
 
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News Comments > etc.
101. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 13:41 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 13:16:
Can you link me?

So now you want ME to become ASeven?

Just kidding; I actually like when people dig up different links so I can read what goes on on both sides. Basically I'm saying that the Sarkeesian videos were the shot that ended the "Cold War" between gamers and the press and turned it into a full on battle. I only focus on her because of how the press falls over themselves holding her up as their champion. My beef is now and always has been with the press; I really don't care about Sarkeesian as she is herself admitted she is not a gamer (despite lying about it).

HA! I'd never ask that, Prez.
What I meant by "being ASeven" is posting outside articles that don't have much specifically to do with the discussion at hand and adding little to no actual commentary about what they're saying.

Most of what I see when people say "everyone is doing this!" are links to some random jackass on Twitter saying all gamers that either do or do not support gamergate are ISIS/Hitler/Communists/Tea Partiers/etc.
 
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News Comments > etc.
97. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 13:14 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 13:11:
Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 12:24:

Who is saying "oh my god the urgency, we need to do this now?"

The press

Beamer wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 12:24:
or even "you people are awful?"

The press. In truth Anita Sarkeesian's video's wouldn't be getting the attention they have been but for the overly complicit crusading gaming press that jumped on her bandwagon without ever mentioning the numerous serious flaws in her argument. If the same press reviewed games in the manner that it has championed Sarkeesian's poorly developed argument every game's score would be a 10 out of 10. Without the press falling over themselves putting such a dishonest and poorly qualified hipster feminist on a pedestal because she happens to be espousing the same nonsense they support she would have been largely dismissed by those who disagree with her as just another hypercritical hack who criticizes out of the usual lack of understanding of games and gaming culture.

Can you link me?
I really think it comes back to people being wholly unable to understand when people are condemning part of a group they identify with. For some reason they assume it means "all." But when it is about a group they aren't a part of, they naturally assume it doesn't mean all.

If I say the buildings in New York are tall, I don't mean all the buildings in New York are tall, or even most of the buildings in New York. But damn, there are some tall buildings in New York.
 
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News Comments > etc.
95. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 13:01 Beamer
 
An actual gaming site discusses GamerGate.

Their main argument? Kill the name. The name has been tainted by sexism and harassment and is doing more damage than the "movement" could ever hope to overcome.

Even Canada is getting in on it, saying anyone claiming this is about ethics is deluding themselves as it's moved extremely far from actually being about that. While it may still be to those few people, it's like someone claiming that Happy Days was still about Richie Cunningham coming of age in his family even though most episodes centered around Fonzie.


edit - oh god, I've become ASeven. I'll stop. I'm avoiding something I really don't want to start at work and started lurking around on sites I'd never go to otherwise to see what kind of insanity this whole thing is causing.

This comment was edited on Oct 17, 2014, 13:06.
 
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News Comments > Hatred Announced
40. Re: Hatred Announced Oct 17, 2014, 12:31 Beamer
 
Of course they have a "right" to make this. I have a right to eat 1,000 In-N-Out burgers in one sitting, or to eat a hot dog covered in broken glass. That doesn't make any of it a good idea.

Games is getting a huge black eye in the mainstream media right now. The only articles coming out are about sexism. This will shake that and bring it back to murder fantasies/simulators, excessive violence, and making people kill.

Great. Just what everyone needs.
 
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News Comments > etc.
94. Re: etc. Oct 17, 2014, 12:24 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 12:15:
UHD wrote on Oct 17, 2014, 11:58:
Not to nitpick but the fact that video games are changing is in fact acknowledgement that they need to change. It's inevitable as the culture shifts. It's why you won't see a movie like Blazing Saddles made today. Sexism is a loaded subject and people get super emotional over it, whether it's warranted or not. It's complex, and probably not something worth tackling in a limited medium like video games. Again though, can't fault anyone for trying, only in how they go about it.

Need to change as in "oh my god the urgency, we need to do this now! You people are awful blahblahblah" is what I meant. I can absolutely fault people for trying when they go about it in a way that I don't feel is honest or representative.

I haven't played Mirror's Edge (it's one of those games I got on sale via Steam and then promptly never played it) but I was under the impression it tanked because it wasn't a very good game.

Insert any other perceived female driven game there, it was just 2 random examples off the top of my head. Since you mentioned it though, its an above average game that was hampered by some mid-to late game design issues.

Who is saying "oh my god the urgency, we need to do this now?" or even "you people are awful?"

What was said was:
1) The gamers obsessed with harassing women are awful. This is not all gamers, but this is certainly some gamers. Julio can't shut up about "burgers and fries," Cutter can't stop saying truly repulsive shit. Those things are awful (I don't think Julio is an awful person, but he says some misogynistic stuff. I do think Cutter is a computer that fails the Turing Test only because he's so much more repulsive than any human could ever be)

2) That some things should be changed. The volume and urgency only increased as people started saying "no, you're series about specific things is cherry picking specific things and you need to shut up and shouldn't be allowed to say this!" Anita never called for immediate change. Hell, she never really called for anything. She just pointed things out
 
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News Comments > etc.
53. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 19:39 Beamer
 
Loopy wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 19:30:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:39:
She did not say all gamers are like that, but did say that person exists, is horrible, is constantly harassing and lashing out in fear of losing control of his hobby, and needs to be ignored.
Lots of gamers read this and said "I am not that person!" and began campaigns of harassment and lashing out in fear of losing control of their hobby.

Basically we need to turn the Reactionary dial back to zero for all involved, then distribute chill pills. In other words, we're screwed.

The main thing about the hobby, to me, is that so few of us have bothered with significant amounts of AAA games in the past few years. Yeah, we play some we love, but fewer and fewer. Outside of a tiny handful I've only played them on consoles.

But we've picked up so much more in indies, and the indies are getting more and more sophisticated and professional, much more rapidly than I anticipated.
In the past two years, I'd say the games I've played the most are FTL, OMD2, X-COM, Civ4 and maybe Far Cry 3. 2 of those are indies, 2 of those are not indie but kind of fringe AAA, and only one is a AAA graphics bonanza. I think this is true for most people on this board.
 
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News Comments > etc.
40. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 17:53 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 17:40:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:39:
She said that the group of "gamers" that fit the stereotypical description exists and that, while it may be a small group, it is the group that too many publishers still cater too.

Which is horseshit, because in her retarded universe in which she is the Queen Shit, all these 'gamer' neckbeards are guys who have been gaming since the 70s/80s, so all these guys are now in their late 30s, early 40s.

Which publishers target games at the 30-40 bracket exactly? Because pretty much every single AAA game is marketed at the male 14-24 crowd.

But hey, what's an extra straw man here or there?

Creston, I know it's hard to see, but read this CGW editorial from 1997. I found it randomly by flipping through an old CGW for another topic earlier this week.

Basically, it says the same thing. Gamers tend to be mature, reasonable, responsible individuals, but games are so often aimed at complete morons and nitwits. It was worse then, as the ads in that CGW are cringeworthy (I was mocking them before finding this editorial), but it's still true to an extent today.

I mean, people on this very board constantly bemoan how AAA publishers are putting out stupid shit for the lowest common denominator, so I really just don't get how this is so controversial.
 
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News Comments > etc.
34. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 17:15 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 17:09:
Beamer wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 17:07:
Because it was last minute and finding something like that and organizing it is nearly impossible?
Oh please. If last minute means "several days" then you've got a serious problem. I've seen speakers shift from one venue to another in a 12 hour period. The crowds were 500-2500 people.

Those were probably speakers that sold tickets they'd need refunds for and that had teams working with them. From what I understand, Anita was asked to be at the school and flew down. The only organizers were the school, not her.

At this point, I'm not even certain what you're trying to prove here. If she had rescheduled, what of it? You'd still be all pissy about whatever she said.
 
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News Comments > etc.
32. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 17:07 Beamer
 
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 17:05:
UHD wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:43:

I have a really hard time finding fault with her decision. She could have waited for the official investigation, but I guess she felt the CCW law was more serious, because if you're going to conceal a weapon with intent to use it that day you're not going to warn the police beforehand.
So then, why didn't she move the venue to a private hall, theater or something else? She refused to do that, remember public place = CCW in force. But private buildings can restrict that. So now you have the answer, she simply didn't want to.

Because it was last minute and finding something like that and organizing it is nearly impossible?
 
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News Comments > etc.
30. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 16:48 Beamer
 
UHD wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:43:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:31:
UHD wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:25:
So if you were in charge of campus security, and you received a threat that someone was going to start shooting up your school during someone's presentation, what would you do?
Have it investigated, which was done. By the FBI no less, who declared it a non-credible threat and tell them to carry on. Remember she cancelled because of the CCW policy, not because of anything else.

Which honestly is pretty reasonable if you've been inundated with threats to your person. You also wouldn't necessarily insist on such tight security if you're making all these threats up, or you haven't received them in such number or graphic detail. You could just soldier on and look the brave activist standing up to those mean gamers.

I have a really hard time finding fault with her decision. She could have waited for the official investigation, but I guess she felt the CCW law was more serious, because if you're going to conceal a weapon with intent to use it that day you're not going to warn the police beforehand.

Question: would anyone frequenting these threads want to go somewhere and give a discussion about gender and games in front of an armed audience?
 
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News Comments > etc.
28. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 16:39 Beamer
 
Loopy wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:34:
Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:16:
Loopy wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 16:08:
THAT is the "gamers are dead" that got people so offended?! What in Jesus and Mohammed is so wrong with that?!!!!
No it wasn't "that article" it was 15 articles all in a 24hr period containing 35-45% of the same content.

Oh, well I can see how that would seem weird. But the content itself doesn't appear to be superbly offensive. The author wasn't saying literally "gamers are dead," just that games are played by so many that affixing a label to people who play them might be outdated.

Well, Leigh Alexander went beyond that. She said that the group of "gamers" that fit the stereotypical description exists and that, while it may be a small group, it is the group that too many publishers still cater too. There's no reason to act like everyone that plays games is a nerdy neckbeard virgin that drinks Bawlz and has the maturity level of a 2nd grader, and no reason to keep making games targeted at that individual.

She did not say all gamers are like that, but did say that person exists, is horrible, is constantly harassing and lashing out in fear of losing control of his hobby, and needs to be ignored.
Lots of gamers read this and said "I am not that person!" and began campaigns of harassment and lashing out in fear of losing control of their hobby.

She pretty clearly read the first editorial while angry and wrote a very angry creed with a lot of inflammatory language. But while some of us read it and said "yeah, those people do suck and I wish there were more games out there that weren't so tediously stupid" others read it and said "how can she claim I'm like that?!"
 
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News Comments > etc.
21. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 16:02 Beamer
 
Jivaro wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 15:51:
The problem, aside from the ridiculous threats, is this term "gamer". It doesn't mean anything any more. In fact, I am not sure it ever really did...but that is a different topic. What I mean is that EVERYBODY games now. EVERYBODY is a lot of fucking people. Just like every other group of "a lot of fucking people" there are bound to be a vocal, visible, and sometimes dangerous group of assholes that seem absolutely determined to fuck everything up for everyone else.

Interestingly, here's the original "gamers are dead" article.
"On the evidence of the last few weeks, what we are seeing is the end of gamers, and the viciousness that accompanies the death of an identity. Due to fundamental shifts in the videogame audience, and a move towards progressive attitudes within more traditional areas of videogame culture, the gamer identity has been broken... Today, videogames are for everyone. I mean this in an almost destructive way. Videogames, to read the other side of the same statement, are not for you. You do not get to own videogames. No one gets to own videogames when they are for everyone. They add up to more than any one group.That was written and published hours before Leigh Alexander's, and served as her launching off point. And here's an article from 2013 that she linked to:
""Gamer" is a marketing term used to put you in a box. If you agree with that, maybe you can stop reading right here and never use the word again. But let's continue for the rest of us... The word "gamer" is regressive. It accepts the portrait of us painted by the mainstream news media, and every time I hear it or read it it actually makes me feel a little sick. I believe in this art form, and I believe in the people who make it. That's why I am so hard on this industry, because I believe that as great as it sometimes is, it can get better."

The initial premise, which Leigh Alexander mentions while she sets things on fire, is basically what you said. Well, you said it doesn't mean anything anymore, I agree with these articles that it does mean something but what it means doesn't really exist. It's a derogatory term outside of game sites, and that's unfair, because these days every person games.
 
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News Comments > etc.
14. Re: etc. Oct 16, 2014, 14:59 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Oct 16, 2014, 14:49:
http://www.usu.edu/ust/index.cfm?article=54179

According to Utah State Today, the threats against Anita Sarkeesian were a hoax. She cancelled the talk because she "was concerned about the fact that state law prevented the university from keeping people with a legal concealed firearm permit from entering the event. University police were prepared and had a plan in place to provide extra security measures at the presentation."

Well well well, who would have guessed??

Uh, did you read that? Nowhere does it say it was a hoax. And Anita said from the start that she canceled it due to concerns about the University security.

edit - I mean, there were real threats. There was no intention to act on them, but ASeven makes it out to seem like Anita made them herself, not that some nutjob called them in.
 
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