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Nickname Beamer
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
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Signed On Jan 9, 2003, 00:22
Total Comments 13249 (Ninja)
User ID 15739
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
98. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:10 Beamer
 
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:09:
Sho wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:51:
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:49:
Tell them they can take their man-hating products and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.

What's man-hating about any of this?

If you think the SJW's aren't against men...

This is the entire problem with your worldview. Not everyone wants to bring you down. Most don't even care you exist.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
93. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:03 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:00:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:58:

I don't buy this, either. What would these "fuck gamers" articles, of which there's really only one, stop?

Stop lying and being intellectual dishonest.

Here's how many articles have been written to this day about "fuck gamers".

https://archive.today/82HOL
>Kotaku: “We Might Be Witnessing The ‘Death Of An Identiy’”
https://archive.today/mT118
>Dan Golding: “The End of Gamers”
https://archive.today/nWG2P
>Gamasutra: “'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over.”
https://archive.today/OCGsS
>arstechnica: “The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them”
https://archive.today/L4n6p
>Vice: “This Guy's Embarrassing Relationship Drama Is Killing the 'Gamer' Identity”

Fair enough.
But, again, unlike you, I don't spend every waking hour compiling an obsessive, massive list of these things.

Seriously, you just pulled those up in about 5 minutes.
Does this not seem unhealthy to you? How angry you are?
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
91. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:02 Beamer
 
Sho wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:59:
Slick wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:55:

there is a real discussion buried beneath all of this, but trying to have a frank discussion about any real issue with the gamer community is like trying to have tea with a rabid terrier.

Yeah. On a meta level, I keep wondering if someone shouldn't put in the effort and make a "Men vs. Tropes in Video Games" series. Not as direct counter to Sarkeesian's topics, but actually sitting down and thinking through male representation in video games. Aside from being just as interesting and worthwhile, it would also maybe help stopping this jealous guarding behavior from parts of the community.

There was a kickstarter for this.
For all the talk of Anita being a fraud just trying to line her pockets, the guy that did the Tropes vs. Men thing actually took the money and ran. He claimed he donated it all to charity when he couldn't deliver, but the charity claims they never received it.

In any case, the difference is that video games tend to be male power fantasies. So yes, the male characters tend to be more "ideal" than the average male, but they're ideal in the ways we want to be so that we want to slip in their shows and spend a few hours shaping their world. The female portrayals tend to not be female power fantasies but additional parts of male power fantasies. In other words, the men tend to be what men want to be, and the women tend to be what men want them to be rather than what women would have any interest at all in being.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
89. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:59 Beamer
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:56:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:38:
Also, can we stop with the "cherry picking" argument?

She has to pick examples. It's when she uses examples that misrepresent that she gets herself in trouble, and makes the videos about her methodology instead of the topic at hand. Failure to do so makes her look like she doesn't know what she's talking about. She needs to apply a little more rigor to her arguments. Especially with such an emotionally charged topic, she needs to have ironclad reasoning.

I agree, but some people aren't saying she's cherry picking moments, but cherry picking games, hence they "why doesn't she talk about all the good Borderlands did!" argument.

And I disagree with the cherry picking complaints I've seen. In large part because most people fail to say what she cherry picks, and just say she cherry picks. But some, like Jerykk, actually put context to their posts and cite their arguments with specifics. I just disagree with him on the Hitman thing.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
87. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:58 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:39:
Some of the forums discussing this are posting this post taken from 4chan. Since it's 4chan take it with a kilo of salt but an interesting read nonetheless.

"Game Journalist here.

I work for a major site, not saying which one since my silence on all of this is obvious even to my co-workers. It'd make it way too obvious who I was.

To put it bluntly; you're winning. Advertisers have contacted our site, and I know they've contacted others, and they're fucking pissed. This shit has gone on longer than anyone has expected it to, and it's beginning to affect the brands of people associated with ours and other sites. They want it to stop. And the bosses of these sites are scared; adblock has already cut deep into the money our site makes, and I know it's slicing hard into others.

This has translated in the minds of most of my 'associates' as 'make them stop no matter what', hence all these 'fuck gamer' articles. They're trying to push as hard as they can in hopes everyone backs down. The most important thing to do now is not to back down. They're shooting themselves in the foot. Save any screencaps of anything crazy anyone says, and just repost it forever. Spread it around. Get it onto social media. Spread adblock. Spread advertiser contact. The single most effective thing you can do is contact advertisers. Even 10 letters can get them to call us.

I sure as fuck don't care what happens to us; I finish getting my second degree next year and I'm out anyway. Let it burn."

I don't buy this, either. What would these "fuck gamers" articles, of which there's really only one, stop?
It's fueling the fire. It's intensifying things. It certainly isn't stopping anything. Anyone expecting that to stop something is an idiot. Posts like Sho's, which are fairly balanced, can lead to something stopping.

Saying "fuck gamers" keeps it going.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
84. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:55 Beamer
 
Sho wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:51:
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:49:
Tell them they can take their man-hating products and shove 'em where the sun don't shine.

What's man-hating about any of this?

To some, constructive criticism is hatred.
Some have described what Anita does as trying to neuter and emasculate. I just don't see how "have some women that aren't prostitutes" takes our genitals away.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
83. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:54 Beamer
 
ASeven wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:50:
The hypocrisy of SJWs in a nice article.

Can you please stop putting up links without context and, for once, spell out your own argument.

I'm pretty certain you have taken the week off from work to scour the internet looking for articles. Again, for a guy solely obsessed with the integrity of journalism, you've spent an enormous amount of time on articles about two women, far more than on better examples of the lack of integrity in games journalism (which no one ever believed it had, anyway.)
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
77. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:47 Beamer
 
Dmitri_M wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 17:42:
Forget about her arguments. This is a media savvy individual whose found a way to make her name. Why doesn't she go after sports fans for watching cheerleaders? Films? Magazines with attractive woman on the covers? Because shouting about old media has been done to death and there's no press to get.

The individuals sending her death threats are playing right into her hands. They're giving her coverage. I'd prefer it if she was ignored.

Why doesn't she?
Because she is a fan of games, not football or magazines.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
76. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 17:46 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 14:57:
Creston wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:47:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:38:
Also, can we stop with the "cherry picking" argument?

Until she stops doing it, no.

She's doing a series demonstrating patterns and trends that feature tropes. There's literally no way to do this without picking games that feature these tropes.

And what of the games where she demonstrates these 'tropes' and conveniently ignores that you're perfectly free to do the same shit to male NPCs? I can go into a strip club in GTA and shoot up every male NPC inside and never shoot a woman. I can stuff male NPCs in the trunk of a car too. And she never, ever, ever mentions this. she makes it appear as if hookers are the only people you can stuff into fucking trunks in Sleeping Dogs. That hookers are the only ones you can shoot in strip clubs in GTA. That the skimpily dressed girl in New Vegas is the only one you can shoot in the entire city, and then tries to pretend that there's no consequence to shooting her while you see the freaking Karma box pops up that shows that even though you've done a lot of good for the people of New Vegas, they now definitely mistrust you because you murdered an innocent.

How do you not see that that is the very fucking DEFINITION of cherry picking?

Beamer is too smart to not get this. it seems to me that he has a personal stake in this fight which is blinding him to reason however. He also doesn't realize that every time Sarkeesian does this sort of cherry picking - where bad things can or do happen to both sexes but she only highlights it in the case of women she is actually engaging in a soft kind of misandry, and by defending her, Beamer is doing it as well by extention. Why is it only a problem that women are being killed when men are being killed just as often or even more often? I guess it's okay to you that men are killed then, since you don't have an issue with it? Beamer and Sarkeesian hate men!! This is how ridiculous this whole discussion is.

Frankly, I think we kind of all have some kind of personal stake to make our community better.

(is that the douchiest response possible?)
 
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News Comments > Call of Duty Ghosts Free Multiplayer Weekend
18. Re: Call of Duty Ghosts Free Multiplayer Weekend Aug 29, 2014, 16:26 Beamer
 
justice7 wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 15:59:
a pretty cynical bunch in here. I realise CoD isn't for everyone but come on now. if you don't have anything nice to say...

I have quite enjoyed CoD multiplayer, on Xbox at least, but Ghosts was hands down the worst of the bunch. Far and away.

Ghosts < MW < MW2 < MW3. Some hated MW3's killstreak insanity, but man, was it a blast. I don't know, maybe they were easier to achieve on the PC, but getting a 20 kill streak was an accomplishment on the 360. Even a 10 was an accomplishment.
 
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News Comments > Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell Announced
10. Re: Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell Announced Aug 29, 2014, 16:16 Beamer
 
Y'know, when we'd heard Jay Moore was back, I figured it was some kind of reboot joke.
This makes more sense.

Gat on a recliner with chainguns looks like a lot of fun.
 
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News Comments > Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell Announced
8. Re: Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell Announced Aug 29, 2014, 16:14 Beamer
 
NKD wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 14:54:
Oh my god!!! Play as Johnny Gat and Kinzie????

Fucking. Sold.

I've never wanted to play as them, but I always want them on my mission.


Where do the Saints go after 4? Hell. Makes sense.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
10. Re: Out of the Blue Aug 29, 2014, 14:09 Beamer
 
I know I asked yesterday - but anyone else doing PAX this weekend?  
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
9. Re: Out of the Blue Aug 29, 2014, 14:09 Beamer
 
Bodolza wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:21:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 10:11:
His skin looks really bad....that color....is he wasted?

He's 83 years old. Give the man a break.

He looks amazing for 83.

 
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News Comments > Op Ed
36. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:38 Beamer
 
Also, can we stop with the "cherry picking" argument?

People keep saying this. But Anita isn't doing a series analyzing how women are treated in video games. She's doing a series demonstrating patterns and trends that feature tropes. There's literally no way to do this without picking games that feature these tropes. None. At all. Zero. Had she said she was doing a series analyzing how games feature women, fine, you could make the argument. But that isn't her premise. Note the word "Against" in her title. This is a series on a very specific topic, and it makes no sense to randomly pick games. Saying she cherry picks which games to use makes absolutely no sense and isn't a valid complaint because of course she does. That's the whole point. Making a video discussing a trope, then showing a bunch of games not featuring that particular trope, would be incredibly pointless.

What I am saying does not cover the situation Jerykk mentioned, where he felt she was cherry picking parts of a game. The only one there I certainly agree with is Bioshock Infinite. I do not know if she covered that game, but The Verge mentioned it, and it said Elizabeth existed solely to be naive give health bonuses despite being the most powerful person in the game world. I disagree. I'd say the game is about her, not about the player character, and her going from being a sheltered victim to an incredibly powerful being that controls her own destiny. Focusing just on what she is for the first few hours misses that the game is about her journey.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
34. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:34 Beamer
 
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 13:29:
commonperson wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 10:43:
The rape and death threats are out there for the public to see, this is not stuff any of them are making up. Doxing is quite public too.

Except there's proof that they made these claims up. Look for Aseven's posts for more details. And if anyone male or female goes into the kiddie multiplayer gaming pool on consoles or certain PC games they'll get threats. It comes with those young gamers under 18. None of them mean it seriously.

Creston wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 12:24:
So despite what Leigh Alexander bleats, it's actually far more likely that these young people that she hails as some kind of magnificent new generation are the ones acting like utter retards.

No need to insult the mentally challenged by lumping them in with the SJW crowd. Everytime I see a man-hating SJW article I now think...so what journalist just got laid in exchange for writing it?

On the lack of embracing new consoles, definitely that's true. I think the Xflop scared the publishers off.

The "proof" is about as strong as the "proof" George Bush orchestrated 9/11. It's all wild assumptions.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
27. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:04 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 12:39:
Here's a very nice rebuttal, of a kind, on the whole "ALL FUCKING GAMERS SUCK!" mantra that Gamasutra seems to be spewing.


Dude, she did not say "all gamers fucking suck." She even calls it a vocal majority. But it's the ones that call themselves "real gamers" that suck. Can anyone here deny it? Even without this particular topic, "real gamers" are the ones running around telling everyone they suck because they like Fallout 3 more than Fallout 1, or they suck because they play some games with a controller, or they suck because they once made a game for consoles, or they suck because they once made a game for the PS3 but not the 360, or they suck because they like CoD, or they suck because they don't like CoD enough.

Those people suck.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
49. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 13:01 Beamer
 
Jerykk wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 12:42:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 11:18:
Jerykk wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 23:44:
Sarkeesian is just really bad at supporting her points. She does research on games and looks for things that support her agenda, ignoring context or anything else that might undermine her argument.

Nobody is going to claim that misogyny doesn't exist in games. However, a game isn't misogynistic just because it contains prostitutes that can be killed. About 90% of Sarkeesian's examples ignore context completely. Sure, you can beat up women in Sleeping Dogs and stick them in your trunk but you can do the exact same thing to men. Sure, the random crime events in Watch Dogs do have passive female victims but they also have passive male victims. Sure, there are dead, scantily clad female bodies in Mafia 2 BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A SHOOTOUT IN A STRIP CLUB. Cripes.

Imagine if I played GTA, went out of my way to specifically kill a bunch of black NPCs, took the money that randomly dropped and then declared that the game was racist because it rewarded me for killing black people. Pretty absurd, right? Except that's the exact logic that Sarkeesian uses for most of her examples. She's the epitome of the Social Justice Warrior. She finds social issues where there are none and automatically dismisses anyone who disagrees.

If you watch her videos, she never actually calls a game misogynist. She calls characters in it, but usually when the character beats are that he is. And she doesn't criticize that when it's the villain.

But her point isn't "these games are misogynist," it's that "women aren't portrayed well in games and games have a lot of misogynist elements." There's a huge, huge, huge difference there.

She doesn't have to explicitly use the word "misogynist." Her entire series is devoted to convincing people that sexism is rampant in videogames. Every example she provides is used to that end. I'd be totally fine with that if she used good examples. But she doesn't. She ignores context and provides intentionally misleading footage. For example, in a previous video, she said that the strippers in Hitman: Absolution exist solely so that men can kill them and play with their bodies and that game actively encourages this. She then showed footage of 47 killing the strippers and dragging their bodies around. That's utter bullshit. If you kill strippers (or any other civilians) in Hitman, you are penalized for doing so. You lose points, you lose money, you gain notoriety (in Blood Money, at least). The murder of civilians (female or otherwise) is actively discouraged. Hitman wasn't some sort of exception, either. She makes similarly ridiculous claims with games like Sleeping Dogs, Watch_Dogs, Just Cause 2, Bioshock, GTA, Dishonored, Fallout, Kane & Lynch, etc.

It's okay to agree with her message. There definitely is sexism in games and it should be addressed. However, you need to be critical of how that message is conveyed and Sarkeesian conveys her message in the worst way possible: by ignoring context and straight out lying in many cases. That doesn't help her cause. If anything, it gives the trolls more fuel and gives rational people less reason to agree with her.

No, her entire point is a pattern.

Take, say, the damsel in distress trope. She isn't condemning individual games for using it (though some are lazy about it.) She's saying it's problematic that so many games use it.

It isn't an attack on games. It isn't condemning games. It's point out things games do that they could be better about.

Your Hitman argument falls flat. She says they exist solely to die. And yes, you're penalized for it, but all they can do is die. That's it. And they're the women in the game. They're just obstacles.

And sorry, Jerykk, I think the important thing isn't that we make sure her tactics are ok (and no, she doesn't outright lie.) The important thing is improving. So people don't like her tactics, then why do so many just discount the message. And her cause is being helped. A lot. While there's a lot of fan response against her, the industry response towards her has been almost unanimously positive. One of those is more important than the other.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
9. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 11:21 Beamer
 
InBlack wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 09:37:
But you still missed the point of the article, which by the way doesnt invalidate any of the points you make but clearly states:

Of course he did. He only read the line Blue posted, as per usual Cutter, that's enough for him to call it shit. Even though he blatantly misunderstood what "at its best" means, as you've pointed out to him twice.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
47. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 11:19 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Aug 28, 2014, 21:45:
Whether a few or many, games that don't fit the narrative are ignored because they weaken their extremist cause. Let's say 50% of games have strong women roles. Would that be enough? What about if we reached a point where 75% did? Or 90%? Or 99%? No, as long as even one game exists where even a single solitary woman isn't portrayed exactly the way extreme feminism wants, no, DEMANDS that she be portrayed, the Sarkeesians of the world will continue playing the professional victim. And as long as the spineless and corrupt media remains complicit in helping Sarkeesian stamp out freedom of expression that doesn't suit their wrong-headed agenda it will continue to spread throughout gaming like a cancer. It isn't about equality; it's about the complete suppression of creative ideas that don't fit a narrow, distasteful value system set forth by extreme feminism . I don't want to be a part of an industry like that. Of course I would rather I was able to help force those who would so alter gaming to abandon their twisted crusade before it comes to that.

Yes, the slippery slope argument. Let's not improve anything, because is any improvement enough? Let's keep with something bad rather than try at all.
 
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