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Nickname Beamer
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
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Signed On Jan 9, 2003, 00:22
Total Comments 14206 (Ninja)
User ID 15739
 
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News Comments > Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy
64. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy Nov 20, 2014, 14:30 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 14:18:
Beamer wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 13:55:
Cutter never, ever is right about what is illegal. He's always convinced something is fraud when there's zero evidence.

I doubt you'd get anywhere with a Fraud suit, because you'd have to prove that Frontier did this maliciously and with intent to deceive, which I seriously doubt they did.

But a Breach of Warranty claim could perhaps be upheld.

According to the law

(1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:

(a) Any affirmation of fact or promise made by the seller to the buyer which relates to the goods and becomes part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the affirmation or promise.
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description.


Now, that's if Frontier was here in the US, but they aren't, and I have no idea how that holds across the pond. If they had been here in the US, you could probably hang a Breach of Warranty claim on them and their lawyer would very likely advise them to just refund your money.

(I have no idea whether the Kickstarter part of the story would make any difference. That'd really be up to a court to decide.)

The problem becomes two-fold:
1) Damages. There are essentially zero damages here
2) Whether or not the offline single player is material, and it's exceedingly unlikely it would be found to be material

The thing about contracts for service/goods is that you really just need to come close. Let's say you have chickens and you pay a guy to build you a chicken coop out of pine. He builds it out of oak. In the end, you likely have nothing to sue him for. Yes, the contract said pine, but it isn't really material. You wanted a chicken coop you got a chicken coop. All you can sue for is what the actual damages are, and there are none.

With software, it's even harder. At least with a chicken coop you can point and show "this isn't pine!" With software? Software is incredibly ambiguous. It's nearly impossible to define when it's complete or when it's good enough, which is why lawsuits for bugs never go anywhere (and Cutter loves claiming they will.)

What happened here?
They promised a giant space game.
One bullet point was offline single player play.
They delivered a giant space game with online single player play.

So what? I don't ask that emotionally, as I fully get why people want refunds. I ask that legally. So what?
You can still play your space sim, which is the key part of the contract.
You can still play it single player.
You just can't play it offline.
This doesn't seem material, as what you really backed was a giant space sim.
And there just aren't damages. You can't quantify it. Every single person downloading it will be able to play it. Some, such as yourself, will just have outages, but how do you quantify outages as damages? It's an inconvenience, not a total block. It's a hassle. And, for a game many will play for hundreds of hours, not being able to play for some hours is hardly anything. If you take the $50, divide it across total hours played to get a dollars per hour cost, then apply that back to hours you couldn't play it's, what, $5 maybe?

Courts would never, ever find it material, though. Legally, t's slightly worse than had they promised that you'd be able to have ships with up to 50 guns but, in actuality, they only had 48 guns.
 
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News Comments > Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy
52. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy Nov 20, 2014, 13:55 Beamer
 
Cutter never, ever is right about what is illegal. He's always convinced something is fraud when there's zero evidence.  
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News Comments > Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy
48. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy Nov 20, 2014, 13:42 Beamer
 
It doesn't have to be Steam. A game disappears for two reasons:


1) it sucks, no one plays it, and it costs too much to keep it alive. In that case, it will be on fire sale somewhere prior. The $50 you paid for it was likely lost, then, anyway, because you could have had it cheaper in a short time and it probably wasn't fun, anyway.

2) it's good to great, it has had a long life, and it's now time to retire it. Would you really not play a great game today because you may not be able to five years from now?

If it's great, you play it. If it isn't great, the money was lost regardless of whether it's still online or not. I can't play any Xbox games online anymore. That doesn't change the value I got from them. If they were fun to play online when I bought them I got my money's worth. If they weren't, being able to play it now wouldn't make a bad buy a good one.
 
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News Comments > Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy
37. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refund Policy Nov 20, 2014, 13:10 Beamer
 
Server code just doesn't bug me that much. By the time servers go down this game will be $2.99 on Steam.

You either got your $47 worth between now and then or you didn't. I get the game disappearing afterwards is annoying, but that seems a separate issue of "is this worth buying/playing?"
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
85. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 20, 2014, 12:17 Beamer
 
SpectralMeat wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 11:35:
Beamer wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 11:22:
Everything calls home in some way. At the very least they can see how many people are in their servers vs copies sold, or how many gamertags have unlocked achievements vs copies sold (which is not a fantastic metric as many systems have multiple tags, and many gamers bring discs to buddies' houses, but is still a metric you'll hear discussed inside studios in the weeks following launch.)
Not to mention the rather large used game market.
I think this is why Microsoft wanted to do the game locked to your gamertag type of deal like what we have on the PC.
Not only that would have eliminated the used game market, it would have gave them more control over legitimate vs pirated.
I am pretty sure that is why both Sony and Microsoft are pushing digital game delivery vs physical media.

Yup.
The console piracy parallel is used games. It's still people acquiring games in a way that does not put money into the pockets of those that created the game. The biggest difference is that it's legal and that there are arguments that people buy games they wouldn't otherwise because they know they can sell it, but I'd argue that, at least years ago, the amount that increased sales was way less than the amount used sales decreased sales.

Steam does it right. Prices drop quickly. Consoles keep prices up way too high way too long. It's why you have used sales, even though they're often not a very good deal ($20 new, $18 used! $40 new, $36 used! 10%!)
 
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News Comments > Morning Mobilization
5. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 20, 2014, 12:12 Beamer
 
mch wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 11:18:
Beamer wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 17:19:
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 16:51:
Not sure why people use uber, we had a local guy pay $1100 for a $15 cab ride. What a complete idiot, did not even realize it was surge pricing.

I will take a cab any day in the week. At least I know what I am paying.

As to IOS MOBA, even the article says it works best on a ipad. The phone's screen is way too small for a game like that.

It's hard not to realize surge pricing. It gives you a big popup.

In any case, why use Uber? Because it's significantly easier and cheaper than taxis. In nicer cars. "Significantly" is an understatement.

There are large issues. Surge pricing is one of them. Liability is a much larger one. Corporate douchelords running the joint is another.

But the product is infinitely more convenient, better priced, and nicer than the competition.

Exactly. Here in DC it's almost impossible to find a cab that will take you out of the city (and I live under a mile across the DC line).

Often times, once you find one, they'll only take you if you pay them a certain amount. Then you can be sure that their credit card reader is malfunctioning, despite being required to have one.

Cabs can get fucked.

I had a friend to pick up at an airport a few Sundays back. I'd promised her, and for several reasons I wanted to keep that promise (plus it had the advantage of taking her back to my place instead of her place.) I drive my car very rarely, though, and knew I hadn't touched it in about 10 weeks. I still didn't check the battery until I had to leave to get her. Sure enough, dead.

A cab from the airport to our neighborhood is approximately $45-$55, depending on the ride. A towncar would be $50. But then I'd have to text her or call her to let her know I wasn't there, I'd be breaking my promise, I'd be relying on her phone being charged after the flight (and, of course, it was not), and I'd have to hope she had cash.

So I solved this by getting an Uber. It took me to the airport. It waited 20 minutes for her to get off her flight and find me. And it took us home. All for $55. For the price of a cab I went both ways, waited, and she was pretty happy.

Uber has its upsides. Cabs are awful. But, if you ever get in an accident, you want it to be with a cab, not an Uber.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
83. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 20, 2014, 11:22 Beamer
 
Orogogus wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 10:46:
InBlack wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 06:21:
Dude. Are you serious? You cant take ONE game and a fairly recent one at that as proof of anything. Go to the VERY SAME SITE and type in any number of console EXCLUSIVE games in the search box...

What the goddamned hell? You're the one who said you think PC and 360+PS3 piracy is about equal. Pick any multiplatform game and I'll show you the numbers; they'll just skew even more for older games. If you want to look at exclusives, small PC-only titles typically have more seeds than the big console exclusives. A hidden object game, Haunted Legends 5, is murdering, say, the Last of Us and Forza Horizon 2.

I'm not unreasonable. If you can think of a reasonable comparison I'll look at it. But what you came up with is, "Look, there are console exclusives on there!" Uh, wow. By anything a normal person would consider reasonable, you can see there's a lot more PC piracy going on.

Which just makes sense. Even though you no long need soldering skills for console piracy you still need to go out and buy something, giving your credit card to some shady site. You are still risking your console being detected and essentially bricked from an online perspective. I'd also argue that piracy is significantly higher proportionately amongst teenagers, who are less likely to have the means to actually buy a mod.

PC? You just need a browser.

On top of it, there's absolutely a longer history and therefore culture of piracy on the PC. Again, this thread shows the PC culture. "I don't want to wait so I will pirate." "There is no demo so I will pirate." Console gamers don't really think this way. Demos? They never really existed so console gamers aren't conditioned to expect them. Having to wait? So many console gamers were used game buyers (something that could easily be brought up in piracy conversations but for some reason never is) so they do not mind waiting for the less urgent games while paying full price for the ones that require large online communities.

Logically speaking, there's just no way the ratio of copies sold to copies pirated is more on consoles than PCs. Not every console can run pirated software. Every single PC can.
And these days studios know. Everything calls home in some way. At the very least they can see how many people are in their servers vs copies sold, or how many gamertags have unlocked achievements vs copies sold (which is not a fantastic metric as many systems have multiple tags, and many gamers bring discs to buddies' houses, but is still a metric you'll hear discussed inside studios in the weeks following launch.)
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
81. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 20, 2014, 10:03 Beamer
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 20, 2014, 07:58:
Beamer wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 13:22:
There isn't some conspiracy to damn you or ALL PC gamers. Stop with that bullshit. Please. Stop. Please. Stop.

Piracy is higher on PC games. Simple fact. It's unavoidable.
The only bullshit seems to be your facts. There is intent by publishers to demonize PC gamers. If you want to call every manufactured psychosis, conspiracies fine by me.

You seem to have such respect for saintly corporations and their great deeds for humanity. Giant corporate publishers, love you too and would never take advantage of you, cause your special. Hahaha_no

Jesus, the persecution complex. If they wanted to demonize you they wouldn't fucking port their games.

Inblack, the levels of piracy aren't comparable. Ps3 and Xbox piracy takes technical skill. PC does not.

I haven't seen hard industry data since 2010. But I used to have it on my desk. There was no comparison. The PC servers were full of pirates. 360 and ps3 had far less. Far less. It was an accepted cost of business. Especially knowing so many were in countries hard to get games.
 
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News Comments > Evening Mobilization
2. Re: Evening Mobilization Nov 19, 2014, 22:24 Beamer
 
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 22:10:
A large +1 to Apple for a change.

Makes sense. Those games are the devil.
I picked up the Adult Swim game Delivery Outlaw, which was flat-out broken. Someone said Trials Frontier did the same thing better.

So I started playing Trials Frontier. And, to start, it was fun. The mechanics are oddly satisfying. The riding is fun, improving your bike is fun, improving your score is fun. Unlocking things is fun.

All of this was at first. I was unlocking things quickly, and moving through rapidly, and rarely having to wait. There was a Halloween thing going on, which gave incentive to keep redoing old levels, which meant I was just getting a lot of parts. That, and everything unlocks rapidly at first, hooking you, then it changes.

Everything slowed to a crawl. The only incentive to redo old levels is to get parts to upgrade your bike because, without those parts, some levels are impossible. So you repeatedly hit walls of not being able to progress without upgrading your bike. To upgrade your bike you need to redo an old level, with no new purpose. But to do that you need fuel. Ultimately, to upgrade, you need one of:

1) Fuel to do levels. Lots of fuel. In some cases days and days and days. You can also buy fuel with real money to bypass this, of course, but otherwise unlocking enough parts to upgrade your bike may take a real time week in just waiting for fuel. Or
2) Diamonds to buy the parts. You get some diamonds in game, but it's miserly. In reality, you pay real money for it. Or
3) In-game money to bypass the upgrade. You get some in game, but it's miserly. In reality, you pay real money for it

Of course, once you either collect the parts after days of doing the same tracks, or spend diamonds to upgrade, or spend money to upgrade, you have to wait for the upgrade to finish. Later on, this waiting is days. Literally, an upgrade can take 4 days. And sometimes you need to upgrade that part multiple times to have a bike capable of getting up a certain hill. So that's like 2 weeks of riding and waiting for fuel to replenish then 2 weeks of waiting for the parts to be installed. Or a lot of money spent.

And it's still infinitely more of a game than Tiny Death Star, which had absolutely 0 game elements.
 
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News Comments > Morning Mobilization
3. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 19, 2014, 17:19 Beamer
 
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 16:51:
Not sure why people use uber, we had a local guy pay $1100 for a $15 cab ride. What a complete idiot, did not even realize it was surge pricing.

I will take a cab any day in the week. At least I know what I am paying.

As to IOS MOBA, even the article says it works best on a ipad. The phone's screen is way too small for a game like that.

It's hard not to realize surge pricing. It gives you a big popup.

In any case, why use Uber? Because it's significantly easier and cheaper than taxis. In nicer cars. "Significantly" is an understatement.

There are large issues. Surge pricing is one of them. Liability is a much larger one. Corporate douchelords running the joint is another.

But the product is infinitely more convenient, better priced, and nicer than the competition.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
71. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 14:42 Beamer
 
What an odd thread.  
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
67. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 13:22 Beamer
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 13:01:
Read about this, as usual this is a publisher stunt to blame PC gamers as pirates. He specifically only mentioned the one thing, which could be associated with PC gamers, not the fact console versions were out almost 2 weeks before the PC(2 days before release).

If you guys are going to talk about this make sure you talk about the whole story, including consoles. If not, publishers will continue to get away with treating the PC gamers like crap and get away with it. I.e. justifying draconian drm, such as always on or not releasing PC versions of games.

It helps them spread the lie and demonize ALL PC gamers in the media. So all PC gamers who do buy PC games, get black eyes as well. Why do you think PC gamers have a bad reputation with the general population.

There isn't some conspiracy to damn you or ALL PC gamers. Stop with that bullshit. Please. Stop. Please. Stop.

Piracy is higher on PC games. Simple fact. It's unavoidable.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
64. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 12:20 Beamer
 
I've only used Pale Moon limitedly. Liked it.  
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
53. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 11:20 Beamer
 
siapnar wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 11:13:
Beamer, can you elaborate on why you don't like Chrome?

You're making me nervous.

It's not like it's some huge thing for me, I use it at work, but I won't log in to my gmail account using it.

Google knows more about me than I know about me by now. But I won't connect those dots for them. I want to make them actually do some work to know everything about me. Make them do some digging to know what I do on the internet other than on their website - pretty sure Chrome feeds them my entire browsing history. Pretty sure Chromebooks feed them everything ever.

It's not like it's a hard, fast thing. And I haven't looked into it so maybe there isn't as much reporting home as I expect. But Google is a data company, so they release free things in exchange for data. Microsoft is a software company, so they release free things to sell software (but also collect data, it just isn't the priority.) FireFox is a non-profit, so it releases free software just to spread itself.

Chrome isn't really any better than IE11 or FF at this point, so I use each interchangeably.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
50. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 10:14 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 02:11:
I'm sitting here wondering why you care Beamer? Are you bored? One guy boycotting Ubisoft isn't the end of your world is it?

Totally bored.
Plus, the authoritative, or even fascist (hahaha), use of "ban" cracked me up, as if ubi is desperately sending agents trying to get games into his house.

I said earlier yesterday, or even late Monday, that when someone makes a post assuming they're older than everyone else here it's a sign they have no argument at all. And he proved it. There was plenty of crap in the 80s and 90s. Test Drive games with spin wheel DRM and $20 car packs despite those cars being on the cover of the game...
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
28. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 00:55 Beamer
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:49:
Beamer wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:48:
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:45:
Yes I have complete control of all content that comes into my household... And to which my family utilizes... Got a problem with it? Lol.. you are funny

Actually, I kind of do. You have a wife, and you tell her what media she's allowed to consume?

Does she have to ask your permission to use the bathroom, too, or do you keep her chained to the toilet when she isn't in the kitchen making you a sandwich?

11 posts, joined last week. Ignored.

I just don't get the massive grudges people have. It seems like a nerd culture thing. Get one thing wrong and people take to the internet forever to tell everyone how awful you were.

Silent Hunter 4 was an abomination. But it was 2007.

Some people here have grudges against Steam. Fine. Steam is actively screwing you, assuming you do not like it. Personally, I avoid Chrome because I feel like Google should have to work for my data rather than me giving it to them on a silver platter.

But Silent Hunter 4 was one thing 8 years ago. It isn't like every game since has kept doing it. It isn't like it's even EA, who I feel is a bit dumb to boycott, who repeatedly finds creative, innovative new ways to make the same dumb mistakes. Even then, if they make a good game without those huge penalties, why not play it?

Life is short. Free time is short. While there's no shortage of great games to play, if something is calling your name, avoiding it because a publisher once dumped a game out prematurely and never fixed it seems questionable. You're only hurting yourself. And, if that's your standard, you'll eventually get to the point that you won't touch a game from any publisher or any developer and suddenly all you can play are games you make yourself.

Sorry, all you'll allow your wife to play are games you made yourself.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
26. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 00:49 Beamer
 
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:47:
keep tossing em your life savings.. they will continue to piss on you.... enjoy it... i'll be watching with a smirk, a huge grinning smirk

Yes, the $60 I paid for Far Cry 4 will certainly send me to the poorhouse. I'll never retire now!
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
25. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 00:48 Beamer
 
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:45:
Yes I have complete control of all content that comes into my household... And to which my family utilizes... Got a problem with it? Lol.. you are funny

Actually, I kind of do. You have a wife, and you tell her what media she's allowed to consume?

Does she have to ask your permission to use the bathroom, too, or do you keep her chained to the toilet when she isn't in the kitchen making you a sandwich?
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
21. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 00:44 Beamer
 
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:41:
Beamer wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:40:
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:34:
This company is a lost cause. Why do you keep supporting it? Oh the casuals who have no clue.. Such a shame.

UBISOFT PROUDLY BANNED IN THIS HOUSEHOLD SINCE SILENT HUNTER 4 AND WILL BE FOREVER.

Haven't missed a thing.

Except for Far Cry 2, Far Cry 3, every Assassin's Creed, Rayman Origins, Blood Dragon, and Stick of Truth.
Games you probably have some pithy response for, but have basically universal acclaim on this board.

Universal Pictures once released a movie I hated, too, but I didn't hold an 8 year grudge.

You think my ban is because I didn't like a game?

I like that you call it "ban." That makes you sound powerful in your household. Like you have control.

And I know it wasn't. It was because SH4 had huge bugs and terrible support.
It was 8 years ago and Ubi has released some great games since.

Everyone screws up. "Banning from my household" games that are good because a game 8 years ago is bad just seems petty and like you're only hurting yourself. And anyone unfortunate enough to live in your household that really wants to play Blood Dragon.
 
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News Comments > Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective
18. Re: Far Cry 4 Piracy Perspective Nov 19, 2014, 00:40 Beamer
 
Killcrit wrote on Nov 19, 2014, 00:34:
This company is a lost cause. Why do you keep supporting it? Oh the casuals who have no clue.. Such a shame.

UBISOFT PROUDLY BANNED IN THIS HOUSEHOLD SINCE SILENT HUNTER 4 AND WILL BE FOREVER.

Haven't missed a thing.

Except for Far Cry 2, Far Cry 3, every Assassin's Creed, Rayman Origins, Blood Dragon, and Stick of Truth.
Games you probably have some pithy response for, but have basically universal acclaim on this board.

Universal Pictures once released a movie I hated, too, but I didn't hold an 8 year grudge.
 
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