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Real Name Paul   
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Nickname Creston
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Signed On Dec 23, 2002, 22:32
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
94. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 17, 2015, 12:21 Creston
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 09:49:
Rather than trying to centralize the incinerators in the industrial park for pollution purposes I split them between the two areas so they each have their own garbage collection. I also put them as far away from the entrance/exit of the areas as possible. This stops the garbage trucks from travelling on the connectors between the areas and causing unneeded traffic. (Note: an important part of that splitter is only putting commercial buildings on the "exit" of the industrial park so that residents don't drive around/through it for shopping purposes.

Yeah I think I'll try the splitting up method. My system works until ~ 40K (and I FFWd my city to 60K yesterday and it was still functional, but traffic was essentially just a giant jam on most entrances 24/7).

Btw, that coffee filter thing you linked, have you tried that with a larger city? (The video shows it working with 6K people, but eh. At 6K a simple 2L1W grid will run beautifully, even if it doesn't split the types of traffic.) I actually never thought about splitting the industrial traffic from the worker traffic, because I never thought that would work.

My biggest problem so far is fires... and funding... No matter where I put the fire departments and no matter the funding level... buildings just burn down all the time. I wedged an "extra" fire/police/hospital just before the traffic splitter (in addition to the ones spread throughout the city) so they can help cover any overworked areas but it just doesn't seem to matter much.

Yeah, stuff burns down. It happens. I don't find it that much of a big deal, except that it's annoying they won't rebuild over it on their own, and you have to bulldoze shit manually. I think there's a mod that auto-bulldozes vacant and burned down lots.

Every time I start to catch back up in funding I need to plop down another school/fire/PD/etc and I can't seem to catch up to my budget to enact any policies without going bankrupt. Maybe I just have to be OK with a little more crime and fire in my town :p

You have that much trouble with funding? I now typically make 5K a week before my city reaches 6K people. I was making 35K a week at 25K population or so. I just stay far away from policies, as the benefits don't really seem to outweigh the costs.

I'm going to try to make a city with just forestry/agriculture and then offices. Maybe by staying away from shitty low level industry I can avoid all the irritating traffic issues.

Btw, I downloaded a 460K people save game yesterday to see how the guy did it, and it was a pretty damn incredible city. One tiny area of industry, and the rest is just high rises and 6 lane boulevards everywhere.

Here is the city for those of you interested in having a look at it.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
93. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 17, 2015, 12:09 Creston
Sepharo wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 02:15:
Are you using empty landfill? That should only be used sparingly and never more than one at a time or it will result in exactly what you said. Spread your incinerator plants like you would any other service, despite the fact that they can travel much farther. Despite the ability to raise funding on garbage to get more trucks I've found it better to simply spread more incinerator plants so they aren't clustering. Keep them away from persistent traffic jam areas too

I try that, but the persistent traffic jam areas are my industrial zone, which produces the most garbage. Also, it's where my incinerators always tended to be, though I've finally begun to realize that I should probably put them somewhere else. I hate spreading the pollution around though.

Baristan wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 02:24:
I started building districts that are only connected by subway and rail.
No more garbage trucks/hearses/firetrucks traveling out of their assigned areas. Significantly reduces traffic, can get away with less incinerators and crematories, and no more buildings burning down next door to the fire station.

I was actually just thinking about that, but doesn't that heavily overload your public transport? I have 30K workers, if they all have to take the train/metro to get to work, it'd look like the Tokyo subway all day long...
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News Comments > Into the Black
21. Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 11:55 Creston
Pigeon wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 20:24:
Interesting argument, but I've always figured people would know what temperatures meet their comfort/discomfort zone based on what they're familiar with. If someone told me it was 34C out I wouldn't know what that meant, but if they said its 93F I'd know it was shorts and t-shirt time. Anyone that has used both extensively have a preference?

I grew up with C, and now use F because I live in the US, and I always have to calculate it back to C before I really know how hot/cold it really is outside.

I can do this in the span of like .5 seconds, but I can never figure out the relative temperature just from the F reading.

In any case, at 0 degrees celsius water freezes, and at 100 degrees C water boils. What are the 0 and 100 points in F for? Oh, that's right, nothing.

F is a fucking stupid system, as is literally every other unit of measure used in the US. We are a base-10 species. Not using base-10 as your default units in everything is retarded.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
85. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 17, 2015, 01:58 Creston
descender wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 17:16:
split the traffic right at the start, and don't let it get back together.

This is essentially the feeder I set up i described below.

Split the traffic right away. One path to industrial... use 1 ways streets connected by 2 way "ends" to create your "industrial box" and then have an exit go back to the highway. Along the exit, create a ramp that feeds back in before the original split. The trucks can wheel around your industrial area all they want, and then feed out successfully. The people working in the industrial area take the connector back to the splitter, and then go home via the residential feeders. I set up basically the same system for the residential feeder, and my traffic flows beautifully (and no trucks ever go in the residential area for the most part).

I essentially stole this idea from here: (A similar workshop entry:

I couldn't recreate his exact implementation so I had to fudge a few things (and added an extra loop back connector that he didn't use)... maybe I'll try to screenshot it later.

Cool links, thanks. My setup works until about 40K population, and then it starts to get overloaded. My biggest problem is always the fucking garbage trucks. The game seems to insist on sending 500 garbage trucks to and fro the same area, causing massive snarls.

I'll give these setups a try.
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General Discussion > Cities Skyline Bluesnoobs
8. No subject Mar 16, 2015, 16:45 Creston
Dacron wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 15:19:
And Creston is building ghettos lol

Hey, whatever my city needs to keep growing.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
81. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 16, 2015, 16:42 Creston
Dacron wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 13:07:
Try designing roundabouts and other road works in the asset editor. Makes it a breeze compared to in game.

I use a very small, 3 lane 1 way round about, with 4 way streets on exit. Much smaller than the 'small' roundabout and much more effective. No lights either, just stop signs to enter. If I create in game instead of editor, if I am off by a slight bit I might end up with lights.

I didn't make this, but it is the same -

If I try to create different ones in game instead of editor, traffic lights everywhere, even inside the roundabouts which kills the purpose.

The problem with very small roundabouts is that eventually they will become overwhelmed by the amount of traffic offered to them. Which is realistic, because the smaller the roundabout, the less traffic it can handle per hour.

So far, through four cities, I've found that really the only thing that will keep up with industrial traffic is freeway, leading to a 2L1W road in the middle, that branches off both left and right with 2L1W roads, that then each lead into a 2L1W road that leads back to the freeway. Ie, split the traffic right at the start, and don't let it get back together.

The only annoying thing about that solution is that trucks tend to want to visit multiple stops in your industrial area, and the only way you can do that with this is to continuously feed them into the area, make one stop, take them out back onto the freeway, then have an on-ramp that allows them to get back to the entry point. It creates a lot of circular traffic, but because it's all freeway and 2L1W roads, it keeps moving.
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
14. Your government in action Mar 16, 2015, 12:39 Creston
From Cali is out of water:

Second, the implementation of the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act of 2014 should be accelerated. The law requires the formation of numerous, regional groundwater sustainability agencies by 2017. Then each agency must adopt a plan by 2022 and “achieve sustainability” 20 years after that.

Yeah, that seems like a good plan. Basically it's: "Let's add more people to the government payroll, then see what happens!"

Well done, fellas.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
78. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 16, 2015, 12:31 Creston
descender wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 11:02:
I've kind of stalled out at around 30k people on my first city, which is also where I learned that you run out of natural resources like Oil... surprise, your Oil power plants are no longer running! Bzzzzt.

I think if you delete your oil industry, the oil power plants will go back to importing oil from The Outside.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
76. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 16, 2015, 02:03 Creston
The only thing really annoying me in game is the seemingly random occurrence of traffic lights.

Example: Make a 2 lane one-way (2L1W) roundabout, and it will be stop signs only on every exit. Make that same roundabout a 6 lane one way one, and it'll have traffic lights at every single intersection.

2 lane one way lanes interacting with 2 lane one way lanes will be stop signs. Do 2L1W against 6L1W lanes, it's traffic lights. 6L1W against 6L1W, it's traffic lights.

Do a mostly 2L1W city section, but put one 6 lane boulevard in the middle (NOT one way), and it's stop signs, even though there it would make more sense for it to be traffic lights.

But then the game throws up something fun for me today. I'd designed a series of consecutive exits/on-ramps off a parallel highway leading into 6 lane boulevards. Though it was finnicky, I finally managed it so that I could interact both an on-ramp, an exit and a second exit which came from the other side, all three onto the starting point of the 6 lane boulevard, and it did it without traffic lights. (The way to do that was to first build it, it would get traffic lights, then delete the 6 lane boulevard, then recreate it, and it recreated it without traffic lights.)

Randomly in the middle of the game, suddenly all the traffic stops using those roads (after literally having worked just fine for years in-game), and I notice a "road end" icon on all three of the intersections.

Try as I might, I could NOT recreate the freaking dual-exit+on-ramp onto 6 lane boulevard without it creating traffic lights. I had to redesign the whole thing to where both exits first merged with one another and then joined the boulevard to get it back to working without traffic lights.

It's SO frustrating how random it seems. Traffic lights should be a designer's choice, not a freaking roll of the dice.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
75. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 16, 2015, 01:50 Creston
Quboid wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 00:48:
Go to the public transport overlay. This shows the same overlay as the public transport tools, but rather than add routes/infrastructure you can select any bus, metro or train line and change how it looks.

The vehicles also change colour. I was wondering WTF those purple lorries were doing driving around my residential area until the penny dropped

Aha! I knew there had to be an easier way. Thanks!
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
12. Re: Steam Top 10 Mar 15, 2015, 19:42 Creston
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News Comments > Steam Top 10
11. Re: Steam Top 10 Mar 15, 2015, 19:41 Creston
Wallshadows wrote on Mar 15, 2015, 14:40:
Is it recommended even for someone who hasn't played a city builder since SimCity 3 and could never make sustainable cities beyond a handful of buildings?

I think the big question to ask is whether you had fun playing SC3. I find Cities Skylines to have quite a bit more Thinking Required(tm) than any of the Sim City games, especially because bad traffic solutions will absolutely cripple everything.

I'm now on my 7th city, and I've yet to have one pass 40K (my current one seems to be doing well though, it's @ 28K and rising steadily). But I actually have a lot of fun starting over and implementing new ideas (which are not necessarily better ones.)

I heartily recommend it, but if you didn't really have much fun playing SC, then I doubt you'd have much fun playing this.

On the flipside, if you don't feel like fucking with the difficult parts yourself, just download a save from the workshop and you can basically get just about anything you want.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
71. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 15, 2015, 19:37 Creston
Dacron wrote on Mar 15, 2015, 13:48:
Really wish you could see the way the ground contours in subway mode. Too many times my beautifully planned line gets all jerky/bends the wrong way instead of making a nice, round connection. The ground interferes and forces a left banking turn that ends up making the connection a right angle where it connects rather than being smooth.

I agree, it could use quite a bit of work. Btw, for those of you who don't know, if you draw multiple bus lines, select one of the busses that runs that line, and then you can rename it AND recolor the line. Makes it MUCH easier to see where your bus coverage is good and where it's weak.

Sadly, this does not seem to work with subways, so I just draw one line that hits all the stations. It works fine, but it's a very inelegant solution.
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General Discussion > Cities Skyline Bluesnoobs
6. Re: Cities Skyline Bluesnoobs Mar 15, 2015, 19:34 Creston
I've actually just had to deal with that in one of my own cities, where ~ 90% of my industry got abandoned, demand cratered for about a year, and it's only finally begun to get back up to usual.

I think it happens when you educate your citizens too much. People with a high school / university education don't want to work in filthy industry, and while there can be a little overlap, the majority of people simply won't work in industry once they reach a certain education level.

The fix I've found is to build a separate housing area (ie, a Projects) where you provide all the facilities as usual, except for NO EDUCATION whatsoever. While this doesn't keep all the smart people out of this area, it does guarantee that the uneducated people that move in tend to stay uneducated, thus guaranteeing a steady influx of unschooled workers for your crappy industries.

(Btw, it's perfectly fine to eventually just let shitty industry die out and put everyone in offices, if you prefer. But if you do that, you can't really make use of the resources on the map.)
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News Comments > Valve on Improving Steam Customer Service
32. Re: Valve on Improving Steam Customer Service Mar 14, 2015, 22:57 Creston
CJ_Parker wrote on Mar 14, 2015, 18:55:
because the first incarnations of Steam were the biggest pile of shit code ever shat out by any developer and that includes Derek Smart.

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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
68. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 14, 2015, 22:49 Creston
jdreyer wrote on Mar 14, 2015, 20:28:
What is that list? Hours played in the past week?

No, that's people actually playing at that particular moment and I believe highest number of people playing in the last 24 hours.
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News Comments > Valve on Improving Steam Customer Service
5. Re: Valve on Improving Steam Customer Service Mar 14, 2015, 15:18 Creston
"The more important thing is that we don't feel like our customer service support is where it needs to be right now,"

RIGHT NOW? Your customer support has been fucking terrible for over a fucking DECADE. Thanks for waking the fuck up.
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
60. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 14, 2015, 12:28 Creston
This is currently an issue for me. Population has been stagnant for about two years @ 30Kish. Not sure what's causing it.  
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News Comments > Cities: Skylines Soars
59. Re: Cities: Skylines Soars Mar 14, 2015, 12:18 Creston
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 14, 2015, 10:50:
If this game uses the same kind of traffic simulation as Sim Cities 5 then there is a *really* easy way to not get grid locked (This is how it worked in Cities in Motion too)

(snipped the rest)

It works mostly this way in C:S, though the question of when an intersection gets traffic lights and when it doesn't does seem to be a bit fiddly. Obviously one way lane into one way lane doesn't get a traffic light, but it seems kind of strange that sometimes I'll feed multiple 2 lane one ways into another 2 lane one way and it's fine, but when I feed those 2 lane one ways into a 6 lane one way, they get traffic lights at every intersection. Not sure if that's a bug or if I'm just missing something.

Imo so far, the big key to not getting too gridlocked is freeways. Freeways EVERYWHERE. And roundabouts, but you have to be careful with how small you make them. The default roundabouts are absolutely MASSIVE (like the size of an entire city block), but it seems that if you make them much smaller than that, traffic simply doesn't flow very well over it. (which is sorta realistic.)

The one thing I dislike about roundabouts is that currently, they give way to traffic from the right, which isn't how good roundabouts work. The roundabout should always have right of way, otherwise the whole thing just gridlocks and it becomes worse than an intersection.

Also, here's a sneaky thing (which could be considered glitchy, but whatever): A freeway ramp allows for much higher speeds than a normal road, so you can make one way roads with them that allow for excellent flow of traffic. Only downside is that you can't build on them, but if it's a road that you weren't planning on building on anyway, it definitely helps traffic flow.
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General Discussion > Cities Skyline Bluesnoobs
4. Re: Cities Skyline Bluesnoobs Mar 14, 2015, 02:28 Creston
Power gets transferred from building to building on its own. So ten houses in a row where the first house is powered, all ten will have power. Essentially every thing that's powered has a bubble around it that sticks out a few grid squares, and if that bubble hits another building that needs power, it'll envelop that building and extend the bubble. The bubble is visible when you open the electricity panel.

So you really only need to draw power lines to stuff that's more than ~ 6 grid squares away from something else. (for example, the bubble can't cross a double freeway, though it'll cross every other road.)

While it may be tempting to just plonk a windmill down next to something that's far away and needs power (water inlets and drains are good examples), it's actually a lot cheaper to just pull power lines to it.

Note that once your city expands, the bubble will take over from your power lines in certain places, and you can then safely bulldoze those power lines without causing your city to blackout.

Really about the only thing that can be tricky is that it may be tempting to lay out a new grid for zoning and to immediately put down like 500 by 500 grid squares with zones, only to then watch the people randomly plop down buildings all around the area and thus being without power since they are too far away from each other. Then you have to pull power lines towards them, and the power lines break up the zones you put down. It's better to see where your bubble or power lines connect, and then slowly zone from that connection point and wait for the zones to get built, so the bubble can grow accordingly.

As for power generation, I tend to go 1 wind turbine (cuz they're cheap to put down) for the initial start, maybe a 2nd one, then several coal plants in a row. I don't typically bother with oil plants, as by the time they become available you can also put down the advanced wind turbine which seems to be the most efficient in Cost/MW as long as you have huge wind areas (dark spots on the placement map) so they can generate 20MW. Then once your money really starts coming in you'll want to put down like 4 or 5 Incinerators to deal with the garbage, and that's another 60 MW of power.

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