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User information for Sho

Real Name Sho   
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Nickname Sho
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Signed On May 26, 2002, 23:49
Total Comments 664 (Apprentice)
User ID 13167
User comment history
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News Comments > Op Ed
215. Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2014, 14:20 Sho
ASeven wrote on Aug 31, 2014, 14:18:
Doesn't make what she said on this matter any less valid.

Has she said anything on this matter beyond the conclusion you linked, though? Like, some analysis? More context, please.
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News Comments > Op Ed
213. Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2014, 14:16 Sho
Dmitri_M wrote on Aug 31, 2014, 14:11:
Beamer and Sho. Do you guys know where I can buy a fedora?

Whoa, you really put us in our place there.
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News Comments > Op Ed
211. Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2014, 13:51 Sho
Twitter is a dumb medium for this (well for most things). A single tweet that claims "something is clear" is just another empty statement lacking substantiation. Retweeting it (whether on Twitter or here) contributes nothing to the conversation except for doing a name drop. It's just noise and we already have enough noise.  
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News Comments > Op Ed
201. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 19:38 Sho
jdreyer wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 19:29:
It's interesting, while I've never been able to get GFs/wife to play any FPSs, they have all loved Diablo (well, 1 & 2) which is pretty violent. Maybe it's the loot? Also, I've heard lots of women enjoy playing The Walking Dead, which (although I have yet to play) I understand has violence as part of a larger narrative. So maybe it's okay for a lot of women as long as it's contextualized?

The Walking Dead is actually one of the most violent games I can readily think of, because a lot of its more violent moments are made a point of and they happen directly at the hand of the player character. Few games have went to such lengths to point out to me I'm currently bashing someone's head in or hacking their limbs off. But the violence is also usually integral to the story, with the aftermath of violence often getting into themes about responsibility, do-ends-justify-means, revenge, etc. (But not in a ham-fisted, black-and-white way, either. It's well-written, plus multiple-choice dialogs allow player expression.)

This comment was edited on Aug 30, 2014, 19:45.
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News Comments > Op Ed
195. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 19:12 Sho
For a more serious reply, I wish the Gamasutra and the Sarkeesian links hadn't been clumped together in the same Op Ed. I think one of the problems of this thread has been trying to discuss both at the same time, and I don't think they're really the same thing.

At least for my part, I find Sarkeesian's videos interesting as mentioned, but I still haven't managed to care one bit about the whole Zoe Quinn affair, and I also haven't read the Gamasutra article because I can guess its contents from the headline (I'm guessing it's going to point to demographic diversification among game-players -- but that doesn't mean the medium won't continue to have more dedicated fans, or that there's anything inherently wrong with being one). So much of this "worst week in gaming" has simply blown past me.

See, whether you agree with Sarkeesian or not, at least those videos are about games.
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News Comments > Op Ed
189. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 16:44 Sho
jdreyer wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 16:33:
Right, it's a good point, and a further argument for more women in gaming. The women in Uncharted were well-written, and surprise! it was written by a woman. Also note how having strong, well-written female characters didn't affect sales at all.

And I always fail to see how more interesting female characters wouldn't offer plain better entertainment to me as a guy. Some of my favorite stories in games resonate at least in part precisely because they feature interesting women (e.g. The Longest Journey/Dreamfall or the Broken Sword games - I tend to play a lot of adventures in general). Heck, it's not even about having female protagonists. I still think about Nicolette DuClare in Deus Ex from time to time just because she was doing something interesting and stuck an interesting situation, and the only storytelling/writing cunning that game tapped into was making sure the characters at least have arcs.
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News Comments > Op Ed
187. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 16:07 Sho
Quinn wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 14:45:
I understand gamers going fucking nuts due to this ridiculous shit. Fuck me. Fuuuuuck....

*will try to post a more meaningful post when his mind is cleared of the first 10 minutes of above linked shite*

I'd like to read that. I'm happy you could find some emotional release just now, I guess, but you don't offer any details as for why you just watched ridiculous shite. Do you disagree it's a trope? Do you think the trope isn't worth covering? Do you think Sarkeesian's examination of it is flawed? If so, how? Do you disagree with her conclusions? Do you disagree with the entire video, or only some parts of it? At which point do your and the author's viewpoint start to diverge? What alternative insights do you have to offer us?

There sure is a lot of huffin' and puffin' about these videos. Strangely it's often just as empty as they proclaim the videos to be, tho.

(I'll say I found this one to be the least interesting of the videos myself, though. It covers pretty well-trodden ground.)
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News Comments > Op Ed
183. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 13:48 Sho
Slashman wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 13:39:
Now if Sarkeesian wants better writing in games across the board, I can get behind that. I do have more trouble getting behind the idea that women in games are the only or more urgent victims of bad writing.

On that note, I really enjoy the Extra Credits video series on more general game design and game writing topics. I suspect it might come across as a bit too preachy for some here as well, but it often raises interesting points.
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News Comments > Into the Black
5. Re: Into the Black Aug 30, 2014, 11:52 Sho
Redmask wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 09:45: for $1.99 a month does DNS redirection for all of those things including Netflix. I have no affiliation with the site, I just use it and think its a good deal, $24 a year to not worry about that nonsense. You just change the DNS in your router to their server and you're set. They're a Canadian company as well.

DNS isn't always enough of course. Personally I have a $4/month VPS in San Francisco at Digital Ocean and an SSH tunnel to it, which locally presents itself as a socks5 proxy. Then I use FoxyProxy in Firefox to hand specific URL patterns over to the proxy, such as YouTube (almost anything music-related in YouTube is blocked in Germany for rights reasons). Works pretty well (unlike e.g. FlipHost where I was previously and which had a horrible uplink to YouTube).
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News Comments > Op Ed
180. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 11:43 Sho
Slashman wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 11:24:
My take on this remains that you cannot expect people to trust your opinion when you're holding up games that aren't guilty of your accusations.

I take no issue with this (or most of the rest of your comment; I think you make some good points), but I'm not sure where trust enters the picture in the first place. Why do we need to trust Sarkeesian? She needs to be critically evaluated, that's all. It's not about her being a leader of anything.

Really one of the biggest dangers in general is group-think, towards any position.
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News Comments > Op Ed
177. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 09:14 Sho
Beamer wrote on Aug 30, 2014, 03:07:

Oh my god that reddit forum. It's everything some here claim doesn't exist.

Check out some time if you want to get an idea of how the more extreme positions end up looking once removed from the pretext of being gaming-related.

Make no mistake: Quite a few of the people upset over Sarkeesian aren't in it because they care about video games. They're in it because they've taken to living in a world where men and women are at war, where only their tribe is uniquely qualified to see the "truth", where men are either alpha or beta, and all the other bullshit that goes into constructing their self-identity and self-worth in lieu of doing anything interesting with their lives.

No doubt there are people like this on both sides of the issue. But that's important to remember. It's BOTH sides - almost by implication if you find it terribly easy to pick sides on a complex topic.

This comment was edited on Aug 30, 2014, 09:51.
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News Comments > Op Ed
176. Re: Op Ed Aug 30, 2014, 09:12 Sho
jdreyer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 23:38:
Here's a thoughtful female dev critiquing Sarkeesian.

Thanks, excellent read!
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News Comments > Op Ed
130. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 20:12 Sho
Icewind wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 20:01:
We're wired differently and most women aren't interested in being coders.


* Nor are most men, when it comes down to it. We coders are a fraction of society in general.

* I've never seen any conclusive data proving there really are inherently less women interested in being coders than men (cf. Prez for pointing out a few things). And I've looked at quite a bit of it (I'm not a domain expert by any means, but I'm professionally implicated as a software developer with institutional responsibilities in some organizations which have female outreach programs).

* Even if it were true, that doesn't mean there aren't or can't be problems with the quality of the workspace experience for the women who do want to code. What percentage of the workforce they constitute doesn't matter. You want to treat individuals well.

* It also doesn't mean the percentage of female developers in the workforce right now is the same as the number of women who'd like to be.

* Some of those individuals equipped with ovaries make damn great engineers. Others are useful. Others aren't. It's really about the same with dudes.

* The specifics of how we are wired differently matter, and are still poorly understood. Here is a recent pop-sci article (don't take as gospel, use as launching point).

* Broader: Coders are also a fraction of game dev. There's a lot of occupations in game dev.

When it comes down to it, not being sexist isn't actually all that hard. It means recognizing that a person's gender doesn't really tell you all that much about them, because on any aspect of life men and women fall into spectra, and while the genders might clump on those spectra here and there, there's also a lot of overlap, and plenty of outliers. In the end you need to look at the individual, and that has implications for how you want to organize, well, your organizations, companies, and societies. And there's definitely still work to do there just on removing certain assumptions in existing systems. For the benefit of both women and men, actually.

This comment was edited on Aug 29, 2014, 20:52.
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News Comments > Op Ed
124. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:55 Sho
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:47:
It isn't about taking away anyone's toys, it's about being more responsible about how we use them.

And I'm not so sure, actually. I think Sarkeesian might actually be leaning towards taking some toys away, basically, because she wants games to help establish a "positive normalcy" (that a lot of those toys aren't exactly a big loss, and removing them would actually make many games better, is worth noting, but subtly incidental to this point). But here's the thing: Just because you disagree with particulars of someone's conclusion, it doesn't mean you can't acknowledge their arguments, and use them for yourself. That's why I find Sarkeesian's videos interesting. It's not the same as subscribing to every facet of her opinion.

IOW: Sarkeesian doesn't even need to want to leave your toys alone. Even if she wants to take your toys away, you're still called upon to have a more nuanced opinion.

Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:47:
In any case, I think Julio is a big free market guy. This is just an example of the market doing some deciding. He complains about freedom, but freedom doesn't come into this. She isn't trying to get anyone banned, jailed, or prevented from making games. She's trying to get them to think about what they're doing as a bigger picture.

Yeah, I've never been a big fan of free market arguments because they often feel like abdicating personal reponsibility. Fact is, you don't live in a vacuum and your decisions affect other people. You also rely on many other people, so you better do well by them.
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News Comments > Op Ed
120. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:39 Sho
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:27:
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:22:
No. Jesus man, no they do not want to tell you what gaming content you can play. They're trying to get gaming content to not fit the same patterns over and over and over.

So she's ok with gaming content about hookers, in-game killing of both women and men etc? That seems a little different than what other posters have said and I've seen attributed to her. Now of course that's not necessarily what game content I want to play, but I want the freedom to play that if I wanted to.

No, I think Beamer might actually be a bit off the mark there (but this is exactly the type of discussion I'd like to see).

As I understand Sarkeesian, her primary point in conclusion to these things is that games are a mass medium now, and that the types of stories we chose to tell in games have consequences for real-life society to some degree. For example, she's saying that if violence against women in games is portrayed as incidental or an unchangable given (and her examples aren't about shitting on specific games, they're about explaining why certain gameplay elements amount out to such things mechanically), it might make real-world society more willing to accept it as a fact of life, or trivialize the degree to which it actually happens out there. The fact that you do end up seeing exactly this used as an argument against her ("but it really is that way, so what's the big deal?") ironically proves her point to some degree. But of course it's an incredibly complex issue and she makes a lot of assumptions that deserve testing.

Anyway, so she's saying that games should be more responsible and make sure if they e.g. portray violence against hookers, that depiction is in some way actually related to what the game is about, or that those hookers are more fully realized as characters than a 10-line game script that implements one specific trivial interaction and nothing more.

So I'm not sure Sarkeesian would actually be satisfied with "just more variety". So that's where independent thinking can follow. Personally, if I understand her right, I don't agree with the extent to which she goes, but I agree that "more variety" would be a positive development and make games more interesting.
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News Comments > Op Ed
109. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:19 Sho
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:18:

I don't know - are you an SJW? If you're for Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian I would say you are.

TBH, I didn't follow the Zoe Quinn thing. I tried to read one summary at some point and went "nope nope nope life's too short" about three paragraphs in. So I have no opinion on that whatsoever. It didn't seem like anything I need to care about.

I think Sarkeesian's videos are interesting.
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News Comments > Op Ed
105. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:17 Sho
FWIW: I heavily disagree with ASeven's opinions, but trying to discredit his position with a mix of "your level of effort is suspicious" and "I'm above the conversation" is exactly the type of behavior I don't like in many of Sarkeesian's critics, too.  
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News Comments > Op Ed
100. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:12 Sho
Julio wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:09:

If you think the SJW's aren't against men...

Well ... it depends on who you call a SJW, I guess. We're on different sides of this issue, does that make me a SJW though? Because I'm pretty damn happy with being a guy and expect to be treated fairly as one, too.
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News Comments > Op Ed
96. Re: Op Ed Aug 29, 2014, 18:07 Sho
Beamer wrote on Aug 29, 2014, 18:02:
In any case, the difference is that video games tend to be male power fantasies. So yes, the male characters tend to be more "ideal" than the average male, but they're ideal in the ways we want to be so that we want to slip in their shows and spend a few hours shaping their world. The female portrayals tend to not be female power fantasies but additional parts of male power fantasies. In other words, the men tend to be what men want to be, and the women tend to be what men want them to be rather than what women would have any interest at all in being.

Yeah, I mentioned the power fantasy as prevalent form of player engagement earlier in the thread. But you know, that's just one more thing such a video series could seriously examine. The archetypes of non-player males also deserve a serious look, though. I'm just saying: I could totally imagine something like this turning up something interesting. It's not really about competing with Sarkeesian's videos or with the examination of women in games. I think there's space for both, independent of the urgency of those issues. It would have the side-benefit of giving certain people one thing less to cry about, though.
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664 Comments. 34 pages. Viewing page 8.
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