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73. Re: Steam Top 10 Dec 24, 2013, 10:41 Redmask
 
Krovven wrote on Dec 24, 2013, 01:35:
That's your definition. Wikipedia says "A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals."

It wasn't my definition, it was the first google result care of Wikipedia. 'Anyone who kills me when I don't want to be killed or for no reason' seems like trying to stretch the definition well beyond it's meaning, loose or otherwise. It's also absurdly hard to implement from a development perspective. PvP is not convenient. You don't walk 10 paces and about face for an honorable duel with pistols at sunset. It is often dirty and sometimes the only solution is to avoid it. Some fights aren't fair or winnable, knowing how to make those choices is part of the learning process. I don't see how you can implement 'fair' PvP in an open world survival game. You can't punish players for killing other players because you can't really define 'reason' in gaming without getting into cheesy WoW style 'I wasnt tagged for PvP!' stuff. All you can do is encourage players to work together to overcome other players who present themselves as an obstacle. We all seem to agree on that much so I'm not sure why this is continuing.

Reputation systems and other forms of punishment for initial aggressors are inherently flawed and players tend to work around them in creative ways. I think like we all agreed, the best thing you can do is give players better tools for grouping and working together, reward that behavior and people will choose it. It won't stop PvP but it will give other players pause before acting out their darker impulses.

I truly do find it amusing, how people are so defensive of their survival game PvP. How precious it seems to be to them that they don't even want to see alternative games and ideas instead of all these copy and paste jobs of DayZ. With all of them, including DayZ, being very amateurish and really none of them being very good or even completed.

I don't see anyone being defensive here, I think everyone has been trying to pin down what it is exactly you want out of a game. You say you want PvP but then make posts in seeming contradiction of that with talk about reason and fairness which can't really be applied to open world survival games with PvP. I'm not married to PvP playmodes, I just don't think these games would be much of anything without them. Like you said many of these games are really amateurish and incomplete, in many cases without the PvP there isn't much of a draw to playing at all. If this group of gamers you talk about is big enough then someone will make a game for them and I will definitely check it out, hopefully it is everything those people want it to be.

To be fair to games like Day Z though, I do see a lot of discussions on other forums where people talk about being griefed, bitch about PvP and when you finally get the real story out of them it essentially boils down to they got killed in some way they didn't like and only want PvP on their terms when its favorable. That sort of bullshit I won't support, no one likes losing but those people can nut up or go play games like Dead Island where its strictly coop.

I had a bit more to say but I have to wrap this up, headed out to family for christmas. Merry Christmas guys, PvP or not!

This comment was edited on Dec 24, 2013, 10:56.
 
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