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13. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 28, 2012, 15:53 Agent.X7
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 15:26:
Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 28, 2012, 15:10:
I fall on the side of wait and see. After all, 1000s of "real scientists" believed the Earth was flat at one point. 1000s of "real scientists" believed in Nuclear Winter. Both theories have been proven wrong. Everyone wants to hang anybody that doesn't agree with the "scientific consensus" - even though there really is no consensus either way - but nobody seems to remember that Galileo didn't agree with the "consensus" either, and look who turned out to be right.

Your analogy is seriously flawed. You're talking about a period when actual science was little more than philosophy because you could easily find yourself branded a heretic or worse by the church which meant excommunication and life over as you know it or literally life over as you know because you were executed. That is a very long way from where we are today with tools that can measure and work with things on a molecular scale.

Do you honestly think for a second that 100s of 1000s of highly intelligent people who have anywhere from 4 to 12 years of post-secondary education that specialize in hard sciences in specialized fields all come together to overwhelmingly agree that climate change - while natural, is also being exacerbated by man - are all somehow wrong and that establishment hating, uneducated, moronic rednecks are actually right? Is that what you're saying? Are you seriously buying into the disinformation being put out by big business who has a vested interest in not seeing regulations implemented that will affect their bottom line is in fact true and all these scientists around the world are wrong? All of them? Every single one? The people only interested in objective information with no corporate agenda are all wrong?

Wow.

I just remembered that I actually own a bridge in Brooklyn I'm selling cheap. I can let you have it a good price. It also comes with a pet unicorn.

Cutter, chill your ass out. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you should start whipping out your e-peen and being all "I'm the smartest guy in the room."

I see you left out Nuclear Winter, which happens to be a fairly recent scientific gaffe.

I honestly believe that, just like politics - which, by the way, science is HUGELY affected by - science is not about discovering and finding the truth anymore. It's about big money, big prizes, big egos. It's just as influenced by corporate money on both sides of the aisle. You don't think GREEN is a HUGE business right now?

Do you know what they base a ton of claims on, on both sides of the aisle? Computer modeling. Do you know what told us we were doomed if nuclear weapons went off because they would plunge the world into nuclear winter? Computer modeling. Do you know why ALL computer models are inherently flawed? Because we DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH to accurately enter every single little data point that might affect the conditions in the real world.

If you or any of these scientists think they are 100% right because the models show that, you and they are deluding yourselves.

Do you know why any REAL scientist says they do not know? Because they are being truthful. Any scientist that claims they know one way or the other is LYING. They are lying because they want to be right, or get grant money, or corporate money. Period.

A great example of a REAL scientist would be Stephen Hawking. He knows his theories are just that: Theories, and he is not above proving himself wrong. He just wants to know, to find things out.

A great example of a bullshit artist posing as a scientist would be James Hansen. He claims to know how the climate change will work, while putting down everyone who disagrees with him.

Real scientists want to have their theories tested and proven wrong if they are. Bullshit artists will put you down rather than face the fact that they may be wrong.

You can have all the schooling in the world and still just be a bullshit artist.

Also, FYI, scientists have no consensus about climate change other than it is obviously occurring.
You're talking about a period when actual science was little more than philosophy because you could easily find yourself branded a heretic or worse by the church which meant excommunication and life over as you know it or literally life over as you know because you were executed. That is a very long way from where we are today with tools that can measure and work with things on a molecular scale.

What, you mean, like now? You do know that scientists lose jobs and grant money if they speak out against the perceived consensus, right? We can measure things on a molecular scale, and yet a large majority of the Earth's population follows crazy religions that tell them to do all sorts of nonsense. Global Warming is a religion. Speak out against it and be excommunicated from the scientific world.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2012, 16:15.
 
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