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87. Re: The Old Republic Stats Dec 29, 2011, 04:33 CreamyBlood
Jerykk wrote on Dec 28, 2011, 05:34:
To make a long story short, I'd go: Risen, Dark Messiah then possibly a tie between New Vegas and DX3. Obviously none of those are actually RPG's but they all tried to do what they set out to do, or are at lease *able* to .

Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be a good RPG? To me, a game that lets me play it the way I want to play it and have the world react in a meaningful fashion. New Vegas accomplished this. You could fight, sneak or talk your way through most of the game. You don't even have to fire a gun if you don't want to. Many of the quests had branching paths and ambiguous moral choices as well and the locales and characters were very well developed.

What IS an RPG, loaded question and different for everyone. For me I like exploration, choices and consequenses, character stats and inventory management with half decent combat and challenge. Other people prefer story. Pick any three of those and I'll probably like it.

As to my favourite RPG, I'll have to go with Fallout 1 or Gothic 2 NoTR. I played 'Dungeon Master' when it first came out on the Atari ST and loved it but am not sure if I could slog through it again. Both have choices and consequesces, okay/mediocre combat (although both very different), great exploration and differing character systems. I think of G2 as more of an action/adventure with half decent, but light character stats. F1 really has most of what I like. To me story isn't a big deal as neither are that great but I'm playing a game, not reading a book.

I'm assuming you never play as a stealthy or diplomatic character? That may be why our opinions vary. I generally try to avoid combat whenever possible. I played through DX3 as a stealth game. I played through FO:NV as a diplomat. Hell, I didn't even wear any armor and I was playing on the highest difficulty in hardcore mode. What about SS2 did you like so much? I'm pretty certain it wasn't the combat, as that was downright terrible. Bioshock's combat was definitely an improvement. For me, SS2 was great when played as survival horror game. The RPG elements were pretty trivial in that respect.

I purposedly played DX HR department as a shooter because I assumed it was going to be a dumbed down console game. I never bound a key to the third person cover thing, purposefully nerfed my character not to take radar or health enhancements and only took shooter stuff (like balanced weapon or whatever). I also got rid of the quest compass and arrows pointing out everything on the screen. I still had a gazillion points at the end. I liked the story, the exploration was so-sol. I think that's because of the small levels, they were designed weird but good enough. I liked the main and side quests.

Even though I built my char as a shooter guy, I still 'stealthed' through it without having those augs. Generally most encounters were 3-6 guys and on 'Dues Ex' mode they were all tough throuhout the whole game, for me. After many hours, I figured out how to do 'take-downs' which made it a bit easier so my MO became sneaking up behind one or two of the guys, dragging their bodies away, possibly sniping one of the others and going head on for the rest. I can't remember a game in recent memory when I had to reload so often.

Honestly, I think because of the options to turn off the console stuff, the story (I read every email I can find) and the super challenging combat, I think it's the best modern game of the last five years. But I still don't think of it as an RPG. The augs became pointless after awhile, (for my build) and it was more of an adventure with story and mostly an FPS.

As to Bioshock, I don't really want to talk about it, I thought it was fun for quite a few hours, loved the atmosphere and the story (did Doom3 start this business of background through emails?) but is ultimately a piece of shit. It failed as an FPS and an RPG. I never finished it, the story petered out and the combat became a chore and the 'augs' became pointless. Opinions differ.

As to SS2, I think as you said, I liked the survival/horror thing. And I love hard science fiction, and it was difficult for me at the time. Plus the inventory management was there with lots of stats even if some of them were useless, I didn't know it at the time. I'm not really sure why I like it better than DX1, I just do. I think it started the trend of mixing an FPS with RPG elements that instead of becoming popular has become worse.

I guess I'll just add that Dark Messiah tacked on the RPG elements but left it at that, it was a hacknslash FPS. And that's why it worked. It was a fun game with good level design, combat encounters and challenge. Bioshock wasn't. Their RPG elements ended up becoming boring and trivial without having the combat or even encounter design to make up for it.

And to finally shut-up, I'll say that DXHR is probably my favourite modern game made in the last five years or so. It's not 'fucking awesome' but I played all the way through and really liked it, mostly because it was challenging and to me simply 'fun'. Still not an RPG though.

PS Forgot about NV but I haven't finished it so I'll let you know what I think about that later if you want.

This comment was edited on Dec 29, 2011, 04:44.
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