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| [Sep 26, 2008, 3:21 pm ET] - Share - Viewing Comments |
StarCraftWire.Net has a bunch of screenshots of StarCraft units that
have been created by some intrepid Korean gamers using Spore's editing tools. In a similar "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" sort of mash-up,
Project Rise is an
under-construction Crysis modification that seeks to recreate the
gameplay of Starsiege TRIBES, Dynamix's much-loved teamplay shooter. They
say plans for a beta will be revealed soon, and that they will move this project
over to Warhead when the just-announced Crysis Warhead SDK is released
( story).
30 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 30. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 20:06 |
Jerykk |
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They were still quicker, plus you had the advantage of lots of players being together for an assault. Also, half of the skill was needing to deploy counter-measures to prevent being taken down. There was a lot of depth. No, they weren't quicker. In the time it takes to get everyone suited up, the carrier spawned and everyone put inside the carrier, the heavy offense could already be at the enemy base.
You say that as if it's a good thing. The whole point of T2 was to make it less deathmatch and more team based. I still don't understand your logic. So if a game is faster and players are easier to kill, that makes it deathmatch? The added speed and lethality demand teamwork. If a flag defender can kill a capper with a single mine/disc combo or completely kill his momentum with a single bodyblock, that capper is going to need to coordinate his run with his teammates in order to stand a chance. Conversely, if a capper can grab the flag and then fly off into the stratosphere at 500 MPH, defense is going to need to use teamwork to keep their flag at home. The speed and lethality of T1 only strengthened the need for teamwork.
Forced teamwork isn't fun, hence why ET:QW was criticised. Err, haven't you been praising T2's teamwork? I do agree that forcing teamwork through a class system isn't fun. However, Tribes has never had a class system. Teamwork was forced naturally because of the tactics and skills that players developed. This applied to both T1 and T2. That said, T2 was not more teamwork oriented than T1. People who believe that must have joined a T1 server filled with newbs and watched as a few pro players completely destroyed them. This was less common in T2, as vehicles provided newbs with a way to compensate for their lack of skill. In a competitive match between equally skilled players, T1 required more teamwork than T2.
There were still quicker routes that were more popular but the focus was on a strong defence, as once the enemy had got to the flag it was more of a challenge to get it back Yeah, T2 was definitely defense oriented. They put shields on everything and turrets were beefed up significantly. This, combined with some really big bases, meant that turtling was much easier to do, killing the pacing of the game. I wouldn't say that stopping flag cappers was harder in T2, though. Sure, you couldn't mine/disc them but you didn't really need to. The slow, floaty physics made cappers much easier to hit. Also, once they got the flag, a big icon would appear over their head no matter their location on the map. I can't count how many times I sniped an enemy capper without even being able to see him.
So that was the sole reason for their inclusion? Please. They added a huge variety to the game, as vertical combat was even more significant than just jetpacks alone. You're right, vehicles weren't just a concession to newbies. They were also an attempt by Dynamix to basically recapture their original vision for Tribes. In T1, vehicles were supposed to play a huge role. However, the discovery of skiing completely changed the game and vehicles became useless. In T2, they forced vehicles upon players by making them overpowered and nerfing the physics, making skiing less effective.
This is exactly the reason a sequel will never succeed, as there is already a divide between fans of the original two games. Agreed. People who played T1 extensively hated T2's slowness and its overbearing presence of vehicles. People who started with T2 loved the vehicles and didn't have problems with the speed because they never really experienced it in T1.
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| 29. |
... |
Sep 27, 2008, 14:22 |
theyarecomingforyou |
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At the risk of sounding like a broken record (like that happens so rarely around here...) I think it was largely the piss-poor state the game was released under, although if I had to give 2 reasons, the second would be the learning curve. Exactly. T2 was revolutionary when it came to graphics and vehicles but it had a lot of bugs and was very online centric at a time when dialup was common. It also didn't help that the in-game community features were cutback so soon.
Firstly, they are far too slow. It's much faster to have heavy offense just ski over to the enemy base. Having a bunch of troops in a slow-moving, single carrier makes them an easy target. They were still quicker, plus you had the advantage of lots of players being together for an assault. Also, half of the skill was needing to deploy counter-measures to prevent being taken down. There was a lot of depth.
In T1, you could die really, really easily, especially in a vehicle. You say that as if it's a good thing. The whole point of T2 was to make it less deathmatch and more team based.
If anything, the speed and lethality of T1 really forced teamwork, as individual players didn't stand a chance unless they had a plan and the support to pull it off. Forced teamwork isn't fun, hence why ET:QW was criticised. The point is individuals need to make a difference. However, an organised team is still considerably more effective. TF2 demonstrates this well, as individuals can cap point but combined with medics on uber and engineers with sentries and teleports they form an incredibly formidable combination.
In T2, ski routes didn't really matter as you could just pop into a Shrike and use that to gain momentum. If you were good, you could also use it to escape. In T1, ski routes were everything. You had to learn the terrain and find the best route to gain the most speed and optimal angle for grabbing the enemy flag. However, defense players knew these routes as well, so they'd be expecting you. Again, that's why I liked T2. The maps were really open and you could you a huge assortment of strategies. There were still quicker routes that were more popular but the focus was on a strong defence, as once the enemy had got to the flag it was more of a challenge to get it back. Especially with some of the mods that increased defensive abilities like portable shields.
Vehicles were a concession to new players, an attempt to give them a chance. So that was the sole reason for their inclusion? Please. They added a huge variety to the game, as vertical combat was even more significant than just jetpacks alone.
This is exactly the reason a sequel will never succeed, as there is already a divide between fans of the original two games.
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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society
Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn |
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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz, n00bdog and Twonky" society
CPU upgrade? Check. Graphics upgrade? Not sure. I can wait for DX11 or grab a second 4870 now... or do both. Hmmm.  |
| 28. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 14:15 |
Muscular Beaver |
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Yep, I also played T1 a lot and was turned off by T2.
T2 was just too slow, even after the patches. And I also agree that the vehicles destroyed the balance. I could have lived with a speed cap on medium and heavy armors, but even the lights felt like they were on 2g planets...
T2 in general was dumbed down a lot. Air discs for example were something really special in T1, but in T2 even the newbies could do them all the time.
T3 looked promising in the beta, but for some reason they also slowed it down in the release version (beta was pretty fast, though not quite as fast as T1), so I never bought it.
If they really bring back T1 without dumbing stuff down or making it slower, I would even buy Warhead, even though I promised me not to buy any EA games anymore. I would prolly even buy a GTX280 if its too slow with my GTX260!
Oh and I do hope they also add an awesome voice menu!
YOU IDIOT!
NO!
YES!
NO!
This message was edited at Sep 27, 14:22. |
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Oh that is so lame... You will PAY for your use of inappropriate dialogue!
- Mojo Jojo |
| 26. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 11:48 |
sponge |
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I've always thought that the reason it never caught on is because of the learning curve. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (like that happens so rarely around here...) I think it was largely the piss-poor state the game was released under, although if I had to give 2 reasons, the second would be the learning curve.
I think Tribes 2 really had a hugely missed opportunity to capitalize off the sleeper hit the first Tribes was.
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| 25. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 10:57 |
Mega Fantasy Sci-Fi PostApocalyptic MMORTRPFPS 9000 |
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Vehicles != more teamwork I never mentioned vehicles, but I still think T2 required more teamwork without them. We could argue until the end of time about that and I don't really want to. I'm sure we can both agree that Tribes was a revolutionary franchise way ahead of its time and leave it at that.
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| 24. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 07:44 |
Prez |
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The first Tribes was the best game I ever sucked at.
Sounds like almost too ambitious of a remake. Not really getting my hopes up to much. |
| 23. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 05:00 |
Jerykk |
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The troop transports were a huge tactical asset, as were the mobile bases - they were revolutionary in terms of teamwork / gameplay. Uh, troop transports? Were we playing the same game? I played Tribes 2 Base competitively and Tribes 2 Classic on pubs, and nobody ever used the troop transports. Firstly, they are far too slow. It's much faster to have heavy offense just ski over to the enemy base. Having a bunch of troops in a slow-moving, single carrier makes them an easy target. Splitting up your HO lets you mortar spam the enemy base from multiple angles.
As for the mobile base, I really don't see what was so revolutionary about it. It was basically a portable rocket turret. Park it by your flag and occasionally repair it and you're set.
For revolutionary teamwork/gameplay, simply refer to the flag capping in T1. In T2, ski routes didn't really matter as you could just pop into a Shrike and use that to gain momentum. If you were good, you could also use it to escape. In T1, ski routes were everything. You had to learn the terrain and find the best route to gain the most speed and optimal angle for grabbing the enemy flag. However, defense players knew these routes as well, so they'd be expecting you. Alone, you wouldn't stand a chance, as a single mine/disc combo would kill you instantly. That's if you even made it to the flag without getting bodyblocked. If you did manage to grab the flag, defense players would be able to predict your escape route, making it tricky to escape. Thus, synchronized flag passing was born. Two or more different cappers would use different cap routes and stagger their timing, so one capper would grab the flag, then pass it in midair to another capper flying in the opposite direction, completely throwing off any chasing defense. It was beautiful to behold.
In T2, the nerfed physics and overpowered vehicles largely negated the need to pull off such tactics. Vehicles were a concession to new players, an attempt to give them a chance. And it worked. A couple of newbs in a bomber or tank could rack up at least a few kills. In T1, they wouldn't even get a positive score.
In other words they're too difficult so they're going to skip them by focusing on the original game... hardly a surprise. Regardless of their reasons, I'm glad they are leaving the vehicles out.
Agreed. T2 was much more teamwork oriented. T1 played more like team deathmatch. Disagreed. Vehicles != more teamwork, especially given how overpowered they were in T2. In T1, you could die really, really easily, especially in a vehicle. In T2, if you hopped into a tank or plane, you were almost impossible to take out unless the enemy had a missile launcher. If anything, the speed and lethality of T1 really forced teamwork, as individual players didn't stand a chance unless they had a plan and the support to pull it off.
I've always thought that the reason it never caught on is because of the learning curve. That was a large part of it, yes. The learning cliff prevented the community from growing as large as that of other games like CS. Another factor was lack of hype. Tribes never held the same brand value as Quake or Unreal. Sure, the first game had the Starsiege name except even that was relatively obscure when compared to other mech games like Mechwarrior.
I'm looking forward to this mod because there will never, ever be a proper Tribes sequel. Not with shooters being developed for consoles and every game being a multiplatform affair.
This message was edited at Sep 27, 07:34. |
| 22. |
Re: ... |
Sep 27, 2008, 01:07 |
Mega Fantasy Sci-Fi PostApocalyptic MMORTRPFPS 9000 |
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Agreed. T2 was much more teamwork oriented. T1 played more like team deathmatch.
It always blows me away how under rated the Tribes series is/was, as many other games.
Game like Quake 2 get a billion times more notoriety than a ground breaking, revolutionary game like tribes. I've always thought that the reason it never caught on is because of the learning curve.
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| 21. |
... |
Sep 26, 2008, 23:07 |
theyarecomingforyou |
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In short, vehicles + Tribes = bad and completely unnecessary. You already have speed and mobility with the jetpacks and skiing and you already have firepower with the mortar launchers. Vehicles just become annoyances. Nonsense. The troop transports were a huge tactical asset, as were the mobile bases - they were revolutionary in terms of teamwork / gameplay. Sure you had to use different tactics to deal with them but they worked really well, particularly given the large scale of the maps. It's the vehicles that made T2 such a distinctive game.
Luckily this mod is inspired primarily by T1 and as such, will have no vehicles. In other words they're too difficult so they're going to skip them by focusing on the original game... hardly a surprise. It's bad enough they're using the Crysis engine but no vehicles? It also seems doubtful they'll get skiing right, so you're basically left with a weapons mod. Saying my expectations are low would be a massive understatement. Still, I wish them the best of luck.
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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society
Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn |
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Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz, n00bdog and Twonky" society
CPU upgrade? Check. Graphics upgrade? Not sure. I can wait for DX11 or grab a second 4870 now... or do both. Hmmm. |
| 20. |
Amazing |
Sep 26, 2008, 22:29 |
Surf |
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It always blows me away how under rated the Tribes series is/was, as many other games.
Game like Quake 2 get a billion times more notoriety than a ground breaking, revolutionary game like tribes.
Quake = Metallica: Wholely overrated, more bad albums than good, barely pushed the music industry far, 1 epic album
Tribes = Black Sabbath: Created a whole music genre single handidly, more great albums than bad, 5 ground breaking albums.
Get my drift?
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| 19. |
Re: Tribes 2 Renegades mod |
Sep 26, 2008, 22:25 |
Jerykk |
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A specific balancing to make T2 feel like T1. Erm, no, T2 Classic was the mod that tried to make T2 feel like T1. Renegades (and big mods in general) has been generally been looked down upon by the Tribes community for dumbing down the game.
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| 18. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 26, 2008, 22:04 |
Kosumo |
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I liked it when one day I put my Tribes CD in my CD player and it played the audio tracks.
Being on dial up at the time, that's about as much entertainment as I got from the title.
Long-time member of Firingsquad until it got douchy.
Amazing, I played them on dial-up and found them to be ok, some thing great, somethings meh; but being on dial-up was not one of them (I was/am in NZ playing on NZ servers thought, where maybe broadband was less available at the time)
If your a 'long-time member' of Firingsquad, did you contribute to it getting douchy? (myself; passive read, always thought it had douch in it, but liked the hardware reviews for a while.)
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| 17. |
Tribes 2 Renegades mod |
Sep 26, 2008, 21:30 |
VultureMAN |
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A specific balancing to make T2 feel like T1. At its heyday, there were plenty of populated servers to play on.
It's where I fell in love with the Engineer. Nothing else beat an Engin pilot and 4 mortar heavies and one AA/Flare Heavy in a transport. Can you say carptet bombing  But the six of you had to be a team. Or else one fighter pilot got the multi-kill.
This message was edited at Sep 26, 21:31. |
| 16. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 26, 2008, 20:22 |
Jerykk |
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Being on dial up at the time, that's about as much entertainment as I got from the title. Tribes had great network code. You could have played the game with dial-up. Granted, you'd probably be relegated to the role of turret monkey, but that's an essential position in any team.
Tribes 2 was far better than Tribes 1 but both were/are incredible games. T2 expanded on all the flaws of T1, anything after T2 was shit. Nonsense. T2 nerfed the physics and made you feel like you were wading through pea soup. They also put a speed cap on players. In addition, the vehicles completely upset the balance of the game. They were overpowered, both offensively and defensively, resulting in the addition of the missile launcher as the only effective counter. However, that counter was also overpowered, forcing everyone to carry counter-measure flares around because players in heavy or medium armor would spam heat-seeking rockets. In short, vehicles + Tribes = bad and completely unnecessary. You already have speed and mobility with the jetpacks and skiing and you already have firepower with the mortar launchers. Vehicles just become annoyances.
T2 had much higher production values but T1 was the better game.
As for this remake, I will believe it when I see it. The hardest aspect of T2 was getting the vehicles right. Luckily this mod is inspired primarily by T1 and as such, will have no vehicles. Not that T1 didn't have vehicles, except they were largely useless.
This message was edited at Sep 26, 20:31. |
| 14. |
Re: ... |
Sep 26, 2008, 19:41 |
The Half Elf |
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Hell I can vividly remember the clusterfuck I had trying to start/play Tribes 2 for the first time.
Not to mention trying to get the high res textures on the players.
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| 12. |
Re: T2 |
Sep 26, 2008, 19:01 |
Ludomancer |
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I loved Tribes 2 when it was patched up... reminds me of Clear Sky in many respects. Care to quantify that statement? I totally don't see the connection.
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| 11. |
Re: T2 |
Sep 26, 2008, 17:59 |
Fion |
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Tribes 1/2 were both very good though their controls were choppy at best they were still a very different type of multiplayer FPS and IMHO a great deal ahead of their time.
As to the Starcraft creations in Spore, I've got to say who ever created these did an amazing job. My own skillz in spore creating aren't remotely as good.. or detail oriented lol.
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