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| [Sep 25, 2008, 10:42 am ET] - Share - Viewing Comments |
The September IGDA
Newsletter follows up on a story that originated with complaints from a
developer about not being credited for his contributions to Warhammer Online:
Age of Reckoning ( story). Mythic's initial reaction
questioned the complainant's testicular fortitude ( story), but in
their August
newsletter the International Game Developers
Association called this situation "disrespectful" and that it "misleads
consumers" ( story). The new newsletter has word that Mythic is
looking to redress this issue by putting complete credits for the game online,
and they will also make a "best effort" at putting such credits online for their
previous games. They do, however, maintain that in-manual credits are reserved
for members of the development team when a game ships. Thanks
Broken Toys and
Massively.
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| 19. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 20:29 |
JohnBirshire |
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I'm enjoying the hell out of War! The game and the quests - particularly as a greenskin - are a hoot!
Haha, yes, I'm playing a Gobbo and I love the quests. If I have to give Warhammer credit for anything, it is definately the quests. They aren't as "cookie cutter" generic as most MMO quests. For example there are quests like finding drunk passed out dwarves, putting them in barrels, and rolling them off cliffs. Quests such as shaving the beards off of captured humans, wearing them, and trying to sneak *unsuccessfully obviously, Greenskins are dumb* into enemy territory. Quests where you use Greenskin children as bait for enemies, hahah. I'm not sure how cool the other faction's quests are, but I'm definitely happy with the Greenskin ones so far.
Although, so far, I have to agree with the counter-argument...WoW is the better game. However, WoW has had 3 years of additions, Warhammer has not. All of those fun things you are doing in WoW...many of them were not in the game when it came out. Arenas, no. Armor sets, no. *didn't even have the Dungeon Sets, let alone Tier sets*. High level raids....not really. Unless you count Molten Core, which most people don't, if you went through that headache. Battlegrounds, no. So give Warhammer some slack, at release it is more fun in some people's opinions than WoW at launch, and also has more content than WoW had at release.
That being said, not to be off topic, credits. Give credit where credit is due. EA/Mythic/Whatever, didn't...and they have too much experience to make such a mistake. As many people stated, although the credits seem irrelevant to many of us, it can other people's lifeline.
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| 18. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 15:15 |
Fibrocyte |
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Technology/code wise? Nothing. Except that WAR is in most ways a step backward from WoW.
Design-wise? PvP from levels 1-Max that is integrated, rewarding, and accessible to all classes, roles and playstyles. As someone who enjoyed a non-pvp viable role (tank) in WoW, this is "totally different." This is a nice & accurate summary.
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| 17. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 15:14 |
Cutter |
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I'm enjoying the hell out of War! The game and the quests - particularly as a greenskin - are a hoot! The PvP/RvR is miles better than WoW. Yeah, it's a lot like WoW...version 2, with many things wrong in WoW done right here. It really is a ton of fun so far.
If anyone else is on Ostermark, gimme a shout - Ozgab the Black Orc! |
| 16. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 14:47 |
Mikus_Aurelius |
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Tell me what's totally different that he missed.
Technology/code wise? Nothing. Except that WAR is in most ways a step backward from WoW.
Design-wise? PvP from levels 1-Max that is integrated, rewarding, and accessible to all classes, roles and playstyles. As someone who enjoyed a non-pvp viable role (tank) in WoW, this is "totally different."
This message was edited at Sep 25, 14:48. |
| 14. |
Depends |
Sep 25, 2008, 14:14 |
Mad Jackson |
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I dunno - depends on what circumstances the guy left under. If he did give ample warning after working for a long time of the project, then sure give him credit.
If he left because the grass was greener across the street and left his dev team in trouble, then I'd pull him. Gotta be annoying to be listed right under the guy who left for a $10k a year raise and caused you to work a ton of overtime to make up his loss.
Mostly common sense - how big was the guy's contribution and was he a professional when he left?
But I DO think most of you are correct: if you're not 100% sure if the guy belongs in the credits or not, pay the extra $0.04 to list the guy.
Playing WAR since it shipped and it's not too bad. The PvE stuff isn't as good as WoW (like you guys say, a clone of WoW), but the Public Quests and RvR stuff is better than anything like them in WoW. Good game for those burned out on WoW content yet still need to get their fix in (at least until Lich comes out).
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| 13. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 13:54 |
manic half |
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have a good friend who is a heavy WoW user. He has 10 level 70 characters (one of each class, two druids; one feral, one restro.). He has run Black Temple with about half of them, and all them in at least SSC. He gave Warhammer a try. What follows is his evaluation, which I found interesting: err.. why did you find that interesting? a WoW fanboy (one who clearly needs a break) has trouble accepting another game. i cannot express the shock in words. this is just.. new and interesting.
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| 12. |
No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 13:46 |
Mr. Tact |
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BTW, I've been meaning to pass this on....
I have a good friend who is a heavy WoW user. He has 10 level 70 characters (one of each class, two druids; one feral, one restro.). He has run Black Temple with about half of them, and all them in at least SSC. He gave Warhammer a try. What follows is his evaluation, which I found interesting:
"Don't waste your money, it's just a clone of Warcraft. After playing it most the day, it is very obvious to me that the developers clearly had access to the original design docs or even the code base of WoW, cause not only is everything a complete one-for-one feature (and GUI) ripoff of WoW, but even lots of the same functionality and usability issues are there too. Hunters have the same weird timer for their autoshot that conflicts with steady shot, pets do the same funky movement when they attack mobs, same terrain and collision issues as WoW... you name it... it's there. The PvP has the same queue issues, the same gameplay problems of starting matches without even teams, crafting professions like jewelcrafting are mis-balanced... it was amazing to see all the same exact problems. The only thing I didn't see was "Internal Bag Error"... so maybe some coder made a typo and "fixed" that longstanding doozy by mistake. Anyway, I can't imagine there won't be a lawsuit if the game sells well. but I can't imagine anyone jumping over to it... it's the same exact game." |
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Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain. |
| 11. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 13:20 |
Overon |
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Who cares, noone looks at the credits anyway. The people who worked on the project or the people that like to verify references, obviously.
And just because you start something, why should you get credit if you didn't finish it? Heck who's to say, maybe this guy barely touched the game at all. Maybe the janitorial staff had more to do with the game than this guy, so should they be credited too? A developer's dog kept him entertained on nights and weekends as he worked on the game. I guess the dog should be credited as well. Sheesh. If you took the 30 seconds to read my post and other people's ideas you would not have asked this question.
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| 10. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 12:31 |
NKD |
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Who cares, noone looks at the credits anyway. To take a line from our pal Nuclear Watchdog: You're a fucking moron. If I wasn't so certain you're an unemployed 14 year old, I'd say this:
How would you like it if you worked for a company for a couple years on a really big project, then you decide to move to be closer to family, for example. You give the company ample notice that you are leaving. In your new city you are looking for work. You've got a real promising job lined up but when they check your references, your former employer says: "Nope, never heard of him." Or maybe they just check the available credits on the project provided by the company, and don't see your name. No job for you.
This subject isn't about Joe Retard 14 year old gamer and whether or not he cares about who is in the credits. It's about the people who put their hard work into a game and are not credited, and could very well be put in a position where it looks like they are lying about having worked on a game. An employer is not going to sit around researching for days trying to figure out why a person isn't credited, they're just gonna say "Sorry not interested."
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| 9. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 12:20 |
The Half Elf |
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Who cares? Who reads the credits?
The people who's name's are/should be there.
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| 8. |
So...yeah... |
Sep 25, 2008, 12:20 |
Ray Marden |
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What's the point of this follow up? All Mythic is really saying is "Yeah, it's true. We really are *ssh*l*s."
And it's a damn CREDIT. It is NOT a listing of current employees. Here, since the employees at Mythic are too stupid to figure this out:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/credit
This is an extreme hypothetical and unrealistic when you factor in the early design and printing time, but Mythic is basically stating somebody could work on a game from day one to all but the last day prior to shipping and design every element in the game, but the replacement lackey, hired the following day, would be the one listed in the manual and given all the - wait for it - CREDIT.
Idiots. All of them.
Again, how petty do you need to be not acknowledge the work somebody did? Mythic is anti-knowledge? Anti-fact?
 Shaking my head %),
Ray |
| 7. |
No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 12:18 |
DanL |
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Who cares, noone looks at the credits anyway. And just because you start something, why should you get credit if you didn't finish it? Heck who's to say, maybe this guy barely touched the game at all. Maybe the janitorial staff had more to do with the game than this guy, so should they be credited too? A developer's dog kept him entertained on nights and weekends as he worked on the game. I guess the dog should be credited as well. Sheesh.
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| 5. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 12:06 |
NKD |
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The movie industry credits everyone There are some pretty strict rules for who must be credited in the movie industry. Not sure who negotiates them exactly.
The movie industry is different in that often times your work on a project will be very short. Making a regular "resume" would prove difficult, so you get work by your credits. But its turning out to be that way with games now too, and I believe everyone who worked on a project should be credited so that they can get the work opportunities they deserve.
If the movie industry can do it, so should they.
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| 4. |
Re: No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 11:54 |
Overon |
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The movie industry credits everyone. I have seen credit where the caterers of a production are credited. That is the better policy especially in the game industry since people may play a huge role and then just before the game ships they are no longer employed by the company. In this case they would not get credited by Mythic's credit policy even though their work played a substantial role.
That scenario is neither fair nor accurate. I acknowledge it's an extreme scenario however. So rather than struggling to define how much and for how long one should work on something before getting credit, the movie studio policy which credits everyone regardless to the size and timing of their contribution to the project is superior.
This message was edited at Sep 25, 11:56. |
| 2. |
No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 10:53 |
nin |
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They do, however, maintain that in-manual credits are reserved for members of the development team when a game ships What a bunch of assholes. Hope they choke...
------------------------------------------------
http://theslip.nin.com/
"The Bellic boys! Taking over your town, assholes!" |
| 1. |
No subject |
Sep 25, 2008, 10:52 |
Quboid |
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They do, however, maintain that in-manual credits are reserved for members of the development team when a game ships. Too little ...
On (Not) Crediting Developers [August 19, 2008, 9:40 pm ET] ... too late.
Dicks.
Quboid |
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